TRUE HISTORY OF THE SHILOH SHEPHERD

Written by Tina M. Barber

September 2003

Hard Questions  --  Honest Answers

John O. Public asks -- MaShiloh, Breed Founder, replies

 

1. I bought my second AKC German Shepherd from Shiloh Shepherd™ kennel in 1989. If I buy one that is now called a "Shiloh Shepherd™" by so many other "breeders" will I still be getting the same type of dog??

2. If I  purchase a non-ISSR puppy that consists of a cross between an  unregistrable "shiloh" and a GSD, what can I call it?

3. If all of the other (non-ISSR) puppies out there are not "real" Shiloh Shepherds™, why are people pretending that they are?

4. What makes the ISSR Shiloh Shepherd™ different from the others that attempt to claim that name??

5. What if a certain dog fits the Breed Standard, doesn't that make it a Shiloh??

6. If it only takes 3-4 generations of breeding "type" to establish a "rare" breed, why is the Shiloh Shepherd™ listed as STILL being under development?

7. Why can't someone just outcross to a GSD??

8. Why are the ISSR rules for breeding these dogs so strict?  We don't have all these rules with my GSDs that are registered in the AKC. 

9. If your gene pool  is so limited that you are still not ready to close the stud books, and outcrossing to GSD's  is not recommended, what criteria do you use for selecting appropriate "New Blood" dogs?

10. Why is it so important to investigate the littermates, and not just the parents, when you are planning a breeding?

11. Is extensive knowledge of the littermates of your breeding stock the most important consideration when choosing breeding partners?

12. Is there any  other protocol that you use when making various breeding decisions?

13. What type of Health Issues are ISSR breeders concerned with??

14. What about the Shiloh Shepherd™ dog owners that did not participate in the health survey?

15. How can you avoid the dangers of over inbreeding, eliminate potentially lethal carriers,  and still maintain the true Shiloh Shepherd™ type??

16. How much importance do you place on Good Hips, Huge Size and Stable Temperament of the Shiloh Shepherd™?

17. From the hip data you have on your web pages, it looks as if  the Shiloh Shepherd™ is losing ground, is it??

18. I heard that the ISSR has an "SP" rating that allows dysplastic dogs to enter the gene pool, can this be true?

19. What about other Health Issues?  What strides are being taken to reduce the frequency of other diseases?

20. On several websites I have noticed that Tina Barber is listed as being one of the founders of the Shiloh Shepherd™ breed. Who were the other people involved?

21. What does the "ideal" Shiloh look and act like, and is it even possible to locate one that totally fits the Breed Standard?

 
 

Question 1.

I bought my second AKC German Shepherd from Shiloh Shepherds kennel in 1989.  If I buy one that is now called a "Shiloh Shepherd" by so many other "breeders" will I still be getting the same type of dog??

Answer: 

As long as the breeder is licensed with the ISSR you can be assured of the same quality that you are expecting.  All ISSR breeders are Licensed and operating within the same guidelines I had established for myself many decades ago!

Requirements to Become an ISSR, Inc. Licensed Breeder

However, if you purchase a pup from someone that is just trying to "pass off" their long haired GSD's or mixed breed pups as "shilohs" then you're getting the wool pulled over your eyes Frown

Please read Shiloh or LHGSD

Then take a few moments to study my article regarding this  Confusion??

If you would like to gain a deeper understanding of the present situation regarding this breed, then please take the time to study the true history of the Shiloh Shepherd by reading about the kennel of origin and visit my new Tina Speaks site!!

For a quick synopsis of the past 40 years please take a good look at the chart and then follow the links listed at the bottom of the page. 

If you take the time to visit a variety of web sites that are promoting the Shiloh Shepherd you should notice that some clearly attempt to claim that their dogs have a right to be called by that name because they have each created their own "registries" for this "breed".  If you use some basic common sense it shouldn't be difficult for you to figure out why they are making such foolish claims.

Please note the REAL DEAL history of these dogs - still under development!!

In essence, these people are attempting to sell their puppies for higher prices then they could demand if they were to inform you that they were just "long haired" German Shepherds without legitimate AKC papers or worst yet--"Shepherd" mixes!  

However, since they did not meet the requirements established by the ISSR to qualify as Shiloh Shepherds (mostly because they combined dogs that were not compatible due to the over-inbreeding or they used unapproved GSD's) they were unable to properly register their puppies. Therefore they have chosen to just use the "name" *Shiloh Shepherd* that has been associated with the awesome dogs that I (Tina Barber) have been producing for over four decades,  thus they are misleading the public into thinking that these dogs are the same "breed" while attempting to defame the real Shiloh Shepherd  that continues to be produced under the strict guidelines of the ISSR!

Discover the TRUTH!! Read all about them!!

As you can clearly see from the confusion article and the History chart, this has been going on for nearly a decade now. In each case, these so called "registries" rise--run--and crash, all in a relatively short amount of time while the ISSR has continued to grow and provide our breed with the ethical data collection and processing that must be maintained in order for us to achieve the goals that have been set before us--to continue expanding our gene pool, with extreme care so that we can all enjoy these beautiful giant healthy dogs with sound hips and stable temperaments worthy to be called SHILOH SHEPHERDS for many generations to come.

A few thoughts that I would like for you to ponder:

If we do not stand strong to our commitment now, but allow ourselves to support the efforts of those that have chosen not to work toward the same goals that our Breed Founder was working towards when she opened up her Shiloh Shepherd™'s kennel doors for others to enter, in order to help her realize her dream for these wonderful dogs, then we will be the ones who will suffer when this breed has ceased to exist. And not only us, but our children and our children's children will be robbed of the opportunity to own one of these amazing creatures, because, by then, surely they will no longer exist.
 

2006 Update

The slivers have continued to mass-produce (and promote) their Fake "OTX shilohs."  Please take a moment to view one of my more recent articles and join our Community Forums to meet hundreds of REAL Shiloh owners!

"Shiloh" Shepherd Fraud! Don't Let the Frauds fool you!

 

Question 2.

If I  purchase a non-ISSR puppy that consists of a cross between an unregistrable "shiloh" and a GSD, what can I call it?

Answer:

You could call the progeny King Shepherds (a rare breed listed with ARBA) IF they let you, OR you could call them long haired GSD's ... although you probably wouldn't be able to get papers, unless your "Shiloh" dogs still have their AKC papers (and then they would certainly be too old to breed since the ISSR took over all registrations in 1991), OR you could LIE and CLAIM that they are "Shiloh Shepherds" so that you can sell them for a lot more money, since there are several dishonest people who have set up "so called" (Bogus) "registries" out there that will  give you OTX "papers" for such pups. Be sure to read about this Confusion very slowly!

What you CAN'T do is to call them REAL Shiloh Shepherds
, since we have MUCH stricter requirements for the development of this breed!!! Please see Registries: What Are They? and Shiloh vs. LHGSD  for further information.
 

This should not be surprising, since most people can easily understand the following example:

You see a sign along the road that says GSD pups for sale, and as you drive up to the farm you notice  two beautiful dogs in the front yard that look  like "pure" German Shepherds. Liking their looks, you pull in and purchase  a female puppy for $50 without papers.  Two years pass. Your friend (who has just imported a very expensive GSD male) offers to breed to your female.  Would you be able to register those pups with the AKC as German Shepherds??  NO!  Not because they are no longer beautiful dogs, but because the "paper trail" has been broken.  Likewise, once the ISSR "paper trail" is broken the progeny is not registrable.  In other words, unfortunately, they cannot even be classified as "purebred" by any legitimate organization.

It's the responsibility of the breeders to follow proper procedures in order to ensure that their litters can be registered.  That is why people charge much higher prices for pups that have the proper "papers" backing up their TRUE lineage!  In the rare breed world there are many Spurious registries that offer "papers" for a few dollars, without demanding any  documentation!  The Internet is full of horror stories about such places.

 

If you feel that you have been defrauded by a person representing themselves as a legitimate "breed registry" then you may want to consider taking the matter to your local government officials, especially if you paid over a hundred dollars for such a puppy. This could be construed as fraud if you were not presented with proper documentation and full disclosure.

 


If you would like to know a little more about other organizations that sell papers, be sure to read  About Dog Registries and Kennel Clubs.

Now you can visit a couple of  examples of such "registries":

American Purebred Registry Home


Canine Registration and Certification Services

then search out more information that will help you to better understand the FULL picture!Clubs, Registries and Associations  may be helpful to you in that search
Wink

Investigate before you Invest! 
Consider the fact that you will have your new friend for many years to come, take some care in choosing one that will fit well into your lifestyle, and not cost you unnecessary heartache
Frown
 

Beware of the "frauds"!!

Caveat Emptor- Buyer Beware  / The Wall of Shame

 

Question 3.  If all of the other (non-ISSR) puppies out there are not "real" Shiloh Shepherds, why are people pretending that they are?

Answer:

Unfortunately the popularity of these magnificent dogs has spread far and wide.  Even pet quality pups sell easily for thousands of dollars, with the demand constantly increasing! At this time (2003) I only have 2 litters (one is only a week old, the other is just leaving for their new homes) yet I have plenty of  prepaid clients still waiting!  By the time my next litter is born, there will be even more people standing in line!  Yes, they will all get exactly what they ordered -- eventually, but some folks don't want to wait 4, 6, 10 months, or even longer, just for a pup Frown Such folks can often be duped into paying a high price for a "mutt" as long as the person "claims" to be a "breeder" and offers some kind of certificate (even if it's only "home computer" generated) that states that this pup IS a "Shiloh Shepherd".  Of course the owner will then insist on representing this dog as a "genuine shiloh" because to do otherwise would be admitting to the fact that they were scammed!! Frown

If you want to prevent that from happening to you, may I suggest that you take a little bit more time investigating this breed.   FAQs: Breed Specific   We also have a lot of other great articles on our  The Shiloh Shepherd™ Learning Center: Site Map  that may be helpful to you.

I would strongly recommend that you read  A Caddy is not a Caddy .... and that you download our
Run with the Big Dogs, a reprint of 1997 article by Eric Curlee in the American Survival Guide Magazine and the Shiloh Shepherd™ Trifold.

The more you learn about these dogs, the better equipped you will be to protect yourself from the oxymudas!

I would also like to recommend that you contact some of our 
Regional Chapters of the Shiloh Shepherd™ Dog Club of America  and try to meet some REAL Shiloh Shepherds™ in person!!  If there are none near you, then be sure to visit one of the Ambassadors listed on our Shiloh Ambassador Map or just join our  Shiloh Shepherd™ Community Forums  so that you can meet hundreds of great people!

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER:  take the time to educate yourself!!  Read our  FAQs: How to Purchase the Right Puppy and  Investigate Before You Invest!  
We have made the information available for you, so take your time ... read my story ...  Broken Hearted Founder  -- look at the pictures in my reports!!

Then if you sincerely want to understand my complete plan for the future welfare of these dogs, please read this page very carefully!! International Shiloh Shepherd™ Registry And don't forget to purchase my new book!!

Shiloh Shepherd Story: Against the Wind - A Breed is born
 

Question 4. What makes the ISSR Shiloh Shepherd different from the others that attempt to claim that name??

Answer:

To begin with, the Shiloh Shepherd is the result of **my** vision (version) of the "total" GSD.  I have spent a lifetime preserving the kind of dog I recalled as a child, and then spent many decades attempting to set type in order for my "vision" for this "breed" to become  a reality  Kennel of Origin--The Real History of the Shiloh Shepherd™ dogs

In 1990 I wrote  The Origins of the Shiloh Shepherd™ (in word and picture) that clearly outlined my FULL intentions (at that time) for the future development of these dogs!  Although I had over 100 dogs in my kennel, I was aware of the fact that I would need help from many other people to sufficiently expand my gene pool.  The ISSR was designed (similarly to the SV) in order to assist me with those goals!  ISSR, Inc.:  Rules and Regulations.

Shortly after that I established my VIB program, and then the OSSA (Original Shiloh Shepherd Academy) where I can continue to teach new future Breeders! The original school was very crude. I made copies of booklets like Planned Breeding by Lloyd Brackett, and typed out pages of lessons and pedigrees that I would mail out to my group of Licensed Breeders in order to help them get more familiarized with our program. I would also include tests that they had to complete and return for scoring. Now most of this is done via the OSS Academy as well as our other forums.

All of our current ISSR Licensed Breeders are listed on our website for your convenience.  Many have their own web pages linked that you can view in order to see more pictures and read information about their particular goals within our organization. Many of the more dedicated ones are also on several SSDCA committees such as the Genetic Task Force or heavily involved in their local chapters. All are working hard toward helping me attain full recognition for this breed.

Others that have attempted to claim that name are **NOT** following the same vision that I have always had for these dogs. They are only interested in  cashing in on the great reputation that **MY** kennel has been able to attain, due to the many decades of producing my version of the Giant <GSD> Shepherds with good hips and stable temperaments!!  Now that the demand has been realized, they are only interested in making a quick profit by misappropriating *the* name, without understanding what *the* name actually stands for!  You should take a moment and read  What's In a Name  and then follow up your knowledge with a peek at our newest (complete timeline) chart Wink Shiloh Shepherd™ History: The First 45 Years as well as Don't Fall 4 The Fraud.

If you would like to SEE the dogs that were used to establish the foundation pillars for this breed-- be sure to read
Pedigree Examples.

That is why it is SO critical to maintain ALL of the data, on a developing breed ... especially the health issues under ONE umbrella!! Any time that any kind of 'splintering' occurs, the ENTIRE breed suffers! Just take a moment to look at this simple example.

<<What many people don't realize is that: With an autosomal recessive disease, for each affected dog in a pedigree, every one of his offspring, both his parents, half his siblings, at least half his parents' siblings, at least two of his four grandparents and at least half their siblings are carrying the gene. -- That's a lot of dogs! >> Breed Out Genetic Disorders

In a nutshell

1. Due to the fact that the specially selected dogs that entered into the elite select group that would be later called "Shiloh Shepherds" were already heavily inbred, the gene pool would need to receive continuous infusion of *New Blood* in order to survive long enough to attain full breed recognition.

2. Since I had already been working with these foundation lines since 1962, I felt that I had attained enough experience (especially since I was operating a kennel that housed over 100 dogs, and produced dozens of litters per year) to continue expanding my gene pool properly, in order to retain the qualities I wanted, while purging those that were not beneficial to this breed's future welfare; like unstable temperaments, small size and various health issues.  

After all, I created the "Shiloh Shepherd", and who else could possibly continue to maintain the quality that I established better than I could?

3. However, some people did not agree with the path I chose to take. They felt that all of the dogs should continue to be inbred, and that my choices of potential outcross NB (New Blood) dogs should not be used.

Of course the more I tried to teach them about the dangers of inbreeding the more stubborn they became, eventually leaving the ISSR in order to do "their own thing" and ended up creating what they consider to be "their own" registries. For more details, please read Confusion and Puppy Producers: What Are They?.

In order to "see" who these people are - be sure to read my Who's Who article!


Interesting Links to the Development of Other Dog Breeds

Argentine Dogo

Distinguished as the only dog developed in Argentina, the Dogo Argentine was created in the 1920's through the stratagem of Dr. Antonio Nores Martinez. The breed is well known throughout Europe, especially Germany, and was granted recognition by the FCI in 1990. 

For more information, please read the entire article: Dogo Argentino Information

Molosserworld Dogo Argentino

Cesky Terrier

Developed by Frantisek Horak in 1949, this breed, a mixture of two different types of terrier, was recognized by the FCI in 1963.  For more information, please read: Cesky Terrier Breed Information

Chinook Dog

"Walden was finally getting the quality of dogs that he was accustomed to; and in 1920 his new line of "Husky half-breds" (as he called them), made their debut at the Gorham, NH winter carnival, and he started seriously promoting dog sledding for draft, recreation, and sport. Racing in New England began a year later, at the 1921 Gorham carnival; it was a modest race (two teams of three dogs each, over a six mile course) and Walden lost, but interest built rapidly from there. Walden had also been promoting freighting by dogsled to the woodsmen as a faster, more economical way to move supplies to their logging camps, and convinced the Brown Paper Company of Berlin, NH to sponsor the first Eastern International Dog Derby in 1922 in part to encourage more people to breed quality sled dogs in the region. Four teams competed in this 123 mile race; and Walden, with Chinook in lead, won hands down. Competition was keen, however; and Walden realized that Chinook, weighing just over 100 pounds in fit working condition, was too massive an animal to continue leading winning race teams. He started breeding Chinook with an eye for lighter boned, faster offspring, who still carried Chinook's intelligence and trademark coloration."  For more information, please read: The History of the Chinook Dog
 

Sepalla Siberian Sled Dog

<<NOW AT LAST Seppalas have recognition as a breed in their own right, sponsored by a federally-chartered animal pedigree association, The Working Canine Association of Canada. By the efforts of two lifelong protectors of Seppalas, they now have "evolving breed" status with Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada.

THIS WEBSITE is dedicated to the goal of saving Seppalas for posterity. The few lucky people who have owned real Seppalas usually feel strongly about the uniqueness of these dogs. Unfortunately there is much misunderstanding about what Seppalas really are. Many dogs represented as Seppalas are really just racing Siberian Huskies. Show-dog fanciers and Siberian Husky breed books often deny that Seppalas even exist!

For more information, please read: The Seppala Siberian Sled Dog Ideal

Old English Bulldogge

A few words from David Leavitt:

<<In 1971, I started this project of breeding a dog with the looks of the 18th century Bulldog. I had become disenchanted with English Bulldogs, due to breeding and breathing problems. I discovered that they didn't look like their ancestors, who were healthier and less extreme. I found that bull and bear-baiting had been very widespread for hundreds of years. Extreme cruelty to animals was inherent in baiting sports. This cruelty was abhorrent to me, but I was fascinated by the great tenacity and courage of the over-matched underdog. I was also drawn to the Bulldog because of his fierce appearance. A modern protection dog, who looks really tough, will repulse an assailant without having to bite. This is the most desirable end to a confrontation. I couldn't find a reliable source for old style Bulldogs, and set about the daunting task of breeding back. I call the breed the Olde English Bulldogge.>>

For more information, please read: Rare Breed Network: A Few Words from David Leavitt.

American Indian Dogs

<<Although it is very loyal and trainable, capable of learning as much as the owner (alpha pack leader) is capable of teaching it. It is a high-energy, primitive type-working breed that needs “TOUGH LOVE” and a job to do, to feel it has a responsible place in the family group or pack. As this breed becomes more and more well known, we need more and more education to stop the “Puppy Mill” type, “Wolf” and/or “Coyote” hybrid breeders from trying to market their hybrids as American Indian Dogs. THIS IS FALSE ADVERTISEMENT and just because they may look somewhat alike, THEY ARE NOT at all the same. People need to know what they are getting. Most hybrids end up passed from one home to another or put down. Please be sure you get a REGISTERED AMERICAN INDIAN DOG. Ask for the breeders number, the litter number and check with us at the Registry before you purchase. Every American Indian Dog Breeder has to be CERTIFIED through the Registry to breed true American Indian Dogs. >>

For more information, please read Founder's Message (by Kim La Flamme, registry owner)

Leonberger

<<Th. Haring writes a story of a dog breeder in Leonberg (Essig) where Essig claimed that he had been breeding dogs for about 20-24 years. In the same article, the dogs mentioned are Leonberger or Gotthard dog and a picture was published to show to readers what they looked like.
Large impressive dogs were very much in demand and there were years that Essig exported more than 300 dogs. The St. Bernard was very much in favor, but had become very rare. In fact, after a catastrophe in 1855, there was only one couple left at the St. Bernard pass. These dogs were crossed with Newfoundland females from Stuttgart, other local dogs, and English breeders crossed them with Mastiffs to obtain a more powerful head. >>

For more information, please read: Internationale Union fur Leonberge Hunde

History
  
The early history of the Leonberger is clouded and tumultuous, revolving around the enthusiasms and exploits of Heinrich Essig  (1809-1889). Essig was a successful politician with a genius for    marketing and public relations. He was an alderman and a prominent    citizen in Leonberg, a town on the outskirts of Stuttgart in southern    Germany. (Leonberg is just 50 kilometers from Rottweil, another famous town that gave its name to the dog breed that originated there.) Essig    was a successful professional animal trader who surrounded himself    with a variety of rare and exotic animals. In dogs, he preferred large    and imposing breeds, which he bred, bought and sold internationally.    In our time, we would probably consider him an rresponsible  puppy-mill owner. He bought and sold dogs for a span of fifty years,  trading sometimes 200 to 300 dogs a year at the height of his career. Like other entrepreneurial individuals, Essig's strong suit was vision    and marketing communications, not attention to detail! So,    unfortunately, he kept no detailed logs or records of his breedings, nor did he believe it necessary to write a standard for the breed he created. What we know of the development of the Leonberger comes from word-of-mouth reports, copies of advertisements written by Essig and others, references in a handful of nineteenth and turn-of-the-century    dog breed encyclopedias, and some very lively articles and    correspondence found in nineteenth-century animal periodicals like Hunde-sport und Jagt, Der Hundefreund, and  Der Hund , a German    nationwide dog magazine still being published today.


Please read: Leonbergers Breed FAQ's (from rec.pet.dogs) for more information.

Canaan Dogs

<<The Genuine Article! Both Tzel's sire and dam were bred by Myrna Shiboleth of the Shaar Hagai Kennels in Israel, Myrna has been breeding Canaan dogs for over 30 years and acquired some of her original stock from the founder of the breed, Prof R. Menzel, notably including Laish me Bnei HaBitachon the first Israeli Canaan champion and the dog Prof. Menzel considered to be the best she ever bred. In the early days of the Shaar Hagai Kennels Myrna brought all her dogs to Prof. Menzel to be judged and evaluated. Prof. Menzel would explain exactly what the qualities and the faults of that particular dog, and how it related to her ideal vision of the breed and whether or not it should be registered and bred from.>>

Please read: Kanaan Hund, Canaan Dog, Chien de Canaan.

<<It is said that the Canaan Dog should look like it has the potential to survive in the harsh conditions of the desert and many people rely very heavily on this to help describe what the breed should look like. Professor Menzel, the breed founder, described and studied several different types of Pariah dogs from the heavy extreme type, Type I, to the small grown type, Type V. It is clear that dogs ranging from very large and heavy bodied to very small and light bodied and with various types of coat are all capable of survival in these harsh conditions. Therefore just because a dog looks like it has the ability to be able to survive in the desert does not necessarily make it the light medium type (collie like) that Professor Menzel preferred and subsequently named the Canaan dog. What makes a Canaan Dog a Canaan Dog, as with every other breed, are its unique breed points such as head shape, body shape, ear and tail set and carriage, coat type and character.>> 

Please read: The Canaan Dog for more information.

Sealyham Terriers

<<The Sealyham Terrier is named for the country estate of the breed's founder, Captain John Edwardes, in Pembrokeshire, Wales. During the mid-1800s, Captain Edwardes needed a dog that could rid his acreage of the foxes, badgers, otters, rats, polecats, and rabbits that infested it. He did not care for the other terriers in the region so he decided to create his own breed. It is not known what breeds he used but there is speculation that they include the Pembroke Welsh Corgi, the West Highland White Terrier, the Dandie Dinmont Terrier, and the Bull Terrier. The Sealyham was recognized as its own breed by the Kennel Club of Great Britain in 1911 and the American Kennel Club in 1913, long after Captain Edwardes had passed away.>>

Please read: Sealyham Terriers for more information.


To learn more about the Shiloh Shepherd, please click on Critical Links.

Discover the critical issues that must be fully exposed!

Question 5: What if a certain dog fits the Breed Standard, doesn't that make it a Shiloh??


Answer:

NO, because there is a lot more involved to this, then just "looking" like a certain breed!  We often see dogs that "look" like a Collie, or GSD, or some other known breed, but unless they have the proper documented registration papers  (unfortunately) they are still considered to be a "mixed-breed"  or  at the least an "unpapered" lookalike. Frown

I would like to take a moment to repeat a very important fact that people often get confused about.  There is NO such thing as a "perfect" dog!  Although some dogs will  be better "representatives" of their Breed Standard <blueprint> none will be 100% perfect!!  The Standard is just a guide for breeders to aim for, and the shows are only there to pick out the best specimens,  in the ring -- at that time
Frown


However, all of the other pups that were rated as "pet quality" due to various conformation faults, still have the right to consider themselves as members of their particular breed!  Can you imagine asking every dog to pass a "test" that would determine if they were - or were not a Labrador, Rottweiler, Doberman, or whatever, strictly determined by their appearance?? How foolish is that!  Every dog breed is classified by a certain name depending on the lineage he/she is descendant from .. not by its "actual"  appearance! Please take a moment to read the "Shiloh Shepherd" requirements established back in 1990!  Shiloh v. LHGSD

I think the confusion <as always> seems to go RIGHT back to kennel v. "breed" Confused

So let me start this lesson off with a bit of   GSD History GSDLounge.com

<<Many well-known kennels of the day, utilizing these lines were Long-Worth, founded by Lloyd Brackett, Liebestraum, owned by Grant Mann, and Hessian, owned by Art and Helen Hess.>>

If you read the GSD history articles, you will soon find that various "kennels" worked very hard to produce certain "TYPES" within the breed ..... "types" that were easily distinguished, and often referred to as "Such & Such Shepherds."  When at the shows it was very common to hear things like "that's a WIENERAU dog, or that's a LIEBESTRAUM dog, etc. etc...... and such kennels that "made a name" were highly respected!!  In turn, they demanded a higher price for their pups ..... so guess what happened??  

<<One drastic example of the widening split between German and American bloodlines in the 1960s is "Bodo vom Lierberg SchH3, FH". He was the 1967 German, Dutch and Belgian Sieger (Grand Victor), was sold to America, but didn’t make US Grand victor and ended up contributing very little to the breed. His brother, "Bernd vom Lierberg Sch3, FH" being as similar to Bodo in look and temperament as only a twin brother can be, remained in Germany and became THE most famous working dog ever since. They where the last all-in-one "universal" working and show dogs. Any real working Shepherd breeder in the world would give just about anything to have the name Bernd or Bodo vom Lierberg in his/her pedigree. Some breeders even use "sound-alike" kennel names to cash-in on the fame of that name. [emphasis added]>> Kimba gsd history

As the breed gained in popularity, many "puppy mills" started to spring up everywhere, the quality of the entire breed was so severely polluted that for a time it was doubtful that it would even survive this type of mass production!  Eventually it was common to refer to the GSD as **the**  "America Show dog"  "German Import" or just a Back Yard Breeder (aka "Puppy farm"  pet!!  Even then, type consistency within this breed was not always easy to come by!  I recall telling people that I could take half a dozen dogs & line them up <all AKC registered> and nobody in their right mind would believe that they could possible all be registered as the **same** breed!!  Because you could find them in all sized <males ranged from over 30" to just barely 24"> colors <except for spotted & brindle, the varieties were almost endless> and "types" <they could be tall & leggy like a wolf, or low stationed with long floppy ears that resembled a Bloodhound more then a GSD!> yet the AKC would provide "papers" on all of them, without any regard to type .. except for the "Show dogs" ... hardly anybody knew what their pup would look like, until it matured!

How could this happen??  Easy ..... it was promoted by people that chose to CALL themselves "breeders" even though they did not know any more about breeding then YOU do!  They were just interested in making a "fast buck" selling puppies from a breed that was in demand ...... at that time!!  If puppy sales dropped, they would just change breeds!!  People like this have always been in existence, and the harm they have done to some wonderful breeds is just plain criminal!!!

Puppy Producers: What Are They?

So what is a real breeder?  A person that whelps a litter of pups .. OR?  Why not take a few minutes to read this page ..... I recall people like this from my past ... not like some of the people that demand to be called "breeders" today     

Shotaan German Shepherds, the UK's number one progressive kennel

Now expand your education a bit and read  Tullibardine Farm Chinooks. Here is a tiny sample!!

<<As new enthusiasts of the breed, and potential breeders as well, we also put a great deal of time into learning as much as we could about the Chinook, and about conservation of minor breeds and working breeds. As for history, breed founder Arthur Walden was often interviewed, and also produced three published works of his own that drew heavily on his “dog punching” experiences in Alaska; and our local antiquarian bookseller was most helpful in locating much of this information. Curiously, the most consuming part was actually learning enough about the modern history of the breed (post 1963, to date) to develop a breeding strategy to suit the needs of the modern Chinook. Fairly early on in the process, I did make the following observations:  Diversity Advice on breeding genetics varies somewhat from one professional to the next, but most seem to agree that the key to long term breed survival is to protect the breed’s genetic diversity above all else. While some linebreeding is generally recommended to maintain breed type, 8 generation inbreeding coefficients in the 10% - 15% range are also recommended to maintain healthy diversity; but inbreeding coefficients in the Chinook, with pedigree records dating back to Harold Smead’s stewardship in the mid to late 1960s, were much, much higher.   >>

If you dig deep, you will note that:
 
1. Breed Founders were respected and their advice was followed...if not, the "breeds" under development <including the GSD> would never have survived!! This process did not last 2-3 years, but many DECADES.
 
2. People took pride in what they developed and didn't try (except for the "scumbags") to "steal" some famous name, just to sell their puppies.

EVEN if you purchased a pup from Fran-Jo kennels, and later bred her to Lance, **you** (as the breeder) could NOT (would not dare to) name your pups Fran-Jo's this or that!!  It would be IMMORAL!!!  RIDICULOUS!!  INSANE actually!!  If this was YOUR breeding, you should name the progeny using your kennel name!!  After all, you were trying to develop *your* own kennel type ... right?? 

Not so these days! All/most of the "frauds" insist on calling their kennels (something) Shiloh Shepherds! The ISSR Licensed Breeders have the integrity and pride not to stoop so low!

Shiloh Shepherds has been MY kennel name for nearly 30 years now!!  Since 1974 all the dogs (be they AKC GSD'S or whatever) that were bred at my kennel should reflect that name! In 1991 I brought them "out" to the public via the ISSR (allowing others that agreed to follow MY strict guidelines) to use MY name, via the ISSR, Inc. Licensed Breeders Agreement  because those dogs are bred under MY supervision ........ and therefore deserve to be recognized as Shiloh Shepherds, in order to EXPAND the gene pool sufficiently enough to establish them as a "real" breed (probably in another 5-10 years). 

ONLY the dogs that have maintained their ISSR documentation as "breeding quality" can be utilized in this program .... yes the "pet" quality (non-breedable) dogs can still claim that they **are** Shiloh Shepherds, but they cannot claim that any progeny they may produce (illegally) should be called likewise. 

Just like in the example I gave above .... If the pup WAS produced by the Fords, then it should carry the Fran-Jo name, if not (even though a Fran-Jo male was the stud) the puppies cannot carry their kennel name ..... that principle has been accepted universally ..... WHY "some" folks seem to be having a problem with this is ALSO confusing to ME!

IMHO, it's just simple identity theft utilized to cheat, steal and destroy!

In all honesty .... I don't know how to explain this new **weird**  "multiple registry" phenomenon any better    Just Don't Fall 4 the Fraud

The best I can say is that ..... IF the dogs have AKC papers stating that they are GSD's .... then THAT is what they are!!  If they have official ISSR papers stating that they are Shiloh Shepherds .... then THAT is what they are!  If they have papers generated by someone that calls him/herself a "registry" ... then the buyers are getting the wool pulled over their eyes, because they are probably unregistrable "mixed" pups that would NOT qualify for acceptance into the AKC or the ISSR Frown

2006 Update

In 2004, a small group of slivers attempted to get UKC recognition! Please read the documentation that we presented to Mr. Cavanaugh and then take a moment to view the other available links!

The UKC rejected their application, but it did spur me on to write additional web articles such as our Registry Comparison.

I sure hope this helps ... please feel free to research and discuss this issue further! You are more then welcome to join  Our Shiloh Shepherds™ Community - Powered by Infopop.


 

Question 6. If it only takes 3-4 generations of breeding "type" to establish a "rare" breed, why is the Shiloh Shepherd listed as STILL being under development?


Answer:

Because just "setting type" and establishing a solid foundation does not provide for sufficient gene pool to continue the process!  In order to better understand what is involved in "breed development" lets look at the biggest two edged sword that a breeder must learn to deal with, and overcome!!

Inbreeding is a wonderful tool that helps us to set "type" and quickly establish a foundation <like laying the "foundation slab" for a new house> Wink

It helps us to "lock in" all of the desirable virtues we are seeking to build upon, making the next step (outcrossing) much easier to deal with, since we have already "locked in" "our" (Lassie)  "type" via the initial inbreeding program.  This is why you can sometimes see an entire litter of pups that resembles (in this case-Collies) one of the parents/grandparents, even though the other parent has a very different appearance. 

Example: If you bred this inbred Collie to a beagle, the pups may look a lot more like Collies!  Yet they have "picked up" the "shadow dog" (recessive) of the Beagle, and if you breed some of these Collie look-a-like pups  to a Golden Retriever, you may end up with pups that look like Goldens or Beagles, even though one of the parents "looked" like a Collie!!  This should show you how fast you can "build" or "tear down" any specific "type"  that you are striving towards!

So why can't we just continue to inbreed on the foundation dogs?  Because you will hit what is known as a "Bottleneck" and this leads to "Inbreeding depression" that MUST be avoided at all costs!!! 

Please note:

About the only animals that are routinely inbred to a high level are laboratory mice and rats. There, the breeders start breeding many lines simultaneously in the expectation that the majority will die out or will suffer significant inbreeding depression, which generally means that they are smaller, produce fewer offspring, are more susceptible to disease, and have a shorter average lifespan. Dogs are no different. If you can start with enough lines, a few may make it through the genetic bottleneck with acceptable fitness. However, dog breeders generally don't have the resources to start several dozen or more lines simultaneously.

Breeding Schemes--the Canine Diversity Project

There are many "side effects" that have to be overcome, but let's just look at one of them:  Immune Deficiency!  When people ask me about it, I often say something like ... How many people do you know of that have died from AIDS?  After thinking about it seriously, they have to say none. People die of complications associated with the fact that they have AIDS, not the actual "disease" known as Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome!  Then I ask them to consider the possibility of every human on earth being affected with this "disease", how many "generations" do they think the human race, as we know it today, could continue? 

Now try to apply this scenario to a "breed" of dog. It's easy to see why there would be NO hope for survival  for that particular "breed" unless drastic outcrossing were to take place! But of course, that would certainly dilute the "type" that was established to begin with!!  (See example above) Therefore the breed must be classified as "still under development" until a sufficient gene pool base of unrelated dogs has been established!!  Depending on the number of pups born per year (and the quality of those litters) this process could take several decades!!  In the event there are major problems (even "political" ones, like those that have plagued the Shiloh Shepherd) along the way, this "gene pool expansion" process would certainly take a lot longer!!!

If you still would like to investigate this subject further, please read Inbreeding Depression and Outbreeding Depression.

For an even deeper study of this subject; please note what the top scientists have to say!!

"How do the lab mouse breeders "get away with it" -- by starting many, many lines and watching most of them die out as they become more inbred. If you breed enough lines, a few may make it through without any major health problems, but I would be surprised if they were as fit as their wild counterparts. (They may be healthier due to better care and nutrition, but I doubt they'd do as well in the wild.) I think cheetahs are in much the same situation. They made it through some event 10-20,000 years that wiped out the North American and other populations, and the African population was lucky. Conservation biologists still worry about their adaptability. It's not that it can't be done. It's just that no one has the resources to start several 100 inbred lines of Poodle, Aussie, GSD, or whatever, or wants to put down hundreds if not thousands of sick puppies."

Inbreeding depression

Links to articles on Shiloh Shepherd health issues in the Shiloh Shepherd Learning Center

 

Question 7.

Why can't someone just outcross to a GSD??


Answer:

Because that would be defeating the entire purpose of separating from them in the first place!!  It has already taken decades to set the proper "type" that can continue to breed true to the Shiloh Shepherd breed standard; outcrossing back to a regular GSD would just tear down all of that hard work!  Besides, if folks just want a long haired GSD, there are plenty of AKC breeders that are still breeding them!!  Why would anyone want to call it a "Shiloh Shepherd"? The sliver frauds are just doing to to make money! They can purchase GSD "litter lots" from puppy mills and sell them for thousands of dollars by printing off "their own" fake papers! Furthermore, if they liked the idea of a "cross" between the two breeds (like the Labradoodle or Cockapoo crosses) then all they need to do is to purchase a "King Shepherd" since that is what that breed is all about! 

 

For serious Shiloh Shepherd breeders to outcross to GSD's would be ludicrous, because it is a step backwards in the development of this breed, especially when we consider the gene pools that are available today!! 

Be sure to read my Critical Links!

"Shiloh" Shepherd Fraud! Don't Let the Frauds fool you!

 

The GSD has changed drastically over the past few decades!  Due to the stringent demands for competition dogs, the Imports have become much "harder" and many remain in a "hyper" state when they are not working.  This is extremely desirable for the competition trainer, but can become a major problem for the typical family that just wants a great companion! Crossing these dogs with the average Shiloh can lead to major temperament problems that must only be dealt with by a professional trainer! Even though some of the EAST German and Czech Imports may still resemble the old-style GSD in appearance, their temperament is very different from the Shiloh Shepherd™! These dogs have been bred, for generations, mainly for police, government and border patrol use! Before purchasing such a dog, the new owner is usually advised (by reputable breeders) to prepare for a stringent training regimen with their local Schutzhund club. Novice ownership is never recommended!

Warning: It is also an extremely dangerous practice, since the unsuspecting new owner might be expecting a gentle Shiloh, while unbeknownst to him, he could actually be raising an unpredictable killer mix!

I am speaking here from personal experience, since I was one of the first people, over two decades ago, to start importing them! Hans Blabla has continued to import them, and he also knows the Shilohs very well due to the fact that he trained the first Shiloh Shepherd™ SAR dog in Jackson Hole, Wyoming (back in '78) and started the Alpine Search Teams out there! During the 80's he worked at my kennel and several "Personal Protection" Kennels, such as Kimbertal, working with various breeds. I am sure he is competent to provide you with his personal knowledge regarding Temperaments and Shiloh Shepherds™ versus East German/Czech Imports and/or the potential disasters involved with breeding such lines together!

The American show dogs would be better suited regarding temperament compatibility, but they have changed so drastically, in appearance,  over the past  few years that crossing back to them at this point would only produce my worst fears of the 70's:  powder puffed mini spooks!!  Why would anyone want to do such a thing to the noble Shiloh Shepherd™??  Take a few minutes and look at the GSD winners of the 60's then move up to the past few years, and you will easily be able to see the changes that have gone into that marvelous breed!!  Now be sure to take a look at my article regarding Conformation Titles, what do they mean and then visit my recent Broken Hearted Breed Founder Cherry Blossom 2004 article.

The real Shiloh Shepherd has to be BIG-BEAUTIFUL and SUPER INTELLIGENT, with a gentle temperament that is well suited for a family companion that can be trusted with children and loved by all!

Links to Temperament and Training Articles in the Shiloh Shepherd Learning Center.

 

Question 8. Why are the ISSR rules for breeding these dogs so strict?  We don't have all these rules with my GSDs that are registered in the AKC. 


Answer:

Because this is a breed *still* under development and without a strong  vision,  and strict rules that must be followed (via the ISSR) this "breed" will never be able to achieve the temperament, conformation and health that I had envisioned!  In the AKC and most other registries, any registered male GSD can "legally"  be mated with any registered female GSD, regardless of the health, temperament and conformation of the dogs.  The ISSR rules are in place to insure that only the best and safest breedings are done, with the ultimate goal of always improving the breed.  Therefore, generations after I am gone, this breed will live on and continue to be the best it can possibly be!!

In order to accomplish those goals, the ISSR licensed breeders are all working together as a team, under my direct guidance, to sufficiently expand our gene pool for all future generations!  For honest dedicated breeders the ISSR rules are really not that difficult to which to adhere!  The ISSR breeders are determined to see this "breed" become a reality, and are willing to make a few sacrifices along the way in order to achieve these goals. 

Unfortunately there are also a few "self-proclaimed" renegade "breeders" that are misleading the public by issuing "papers" from various computers that they claim to be "registries" with no thought in mind as to the harm they are actually doing to this breed's reputation Frown   Please be sure to read the Shiloh Wall of Shame and Buyers Beware!

Such people have the "AKC mentality" that allows anyone to breed anything, just to produce puppies for sale!  No thought is given to the future of such puppies, nor the fact that their owners will want to breed them too,  although they know nothing about breeding, other then the fact that a "pretty" male turned loose with a bitch in heat will produce puppies!  Of course, without a proper knowledge of genetics and our small gene pool, they are over-inbreeding heavily,  often in the WRONG direction. The progeny that they are selling for thousands of dollars a/k/a "imitation Shepherds" will eventually cause enough havoc to badly tarnish the wonderful reputation that I have spent a lifetime building for MY awesome Shiloh Shepherds™!

Anyone purchasing pups from a NON-ISSR breeder is inadvertently supporting the efforts of these opportunists, and pounding another nail into the coffin of the REAL Shiloh Shepherd™'s future as a fully recognized breed!  It would be far better to just rescue a pup from a pet shop, then to encourage the oxymuda breeders to continue mass producing these inferior puppies!!

PLEASE take some time to read Registries: What are They? and then compare what you have learned to what you find on these pages Frown A Puppy Mill? and Puppy Producers: What Are They? Then be sure to visit Tina Speaks!

Tina M. Barber, Shiloh Shepherd Breed Founder, candidly discusses the critical issues facing her breed in the new millennium.
 

Question 9.

If your gene pool  is so limited that you are still not ready to close the stud books, and outcrossing to GSD's  is not recommended, what criteria do you use for selecting appropriate "New Blood" dogs?


Answer:

To begin with, let me try to explain in detail why using a "typical" German Shepherd dog would not work well for the Shiloh Shepherd™.

Let's  recap a few main issues.

1. The GSD has changed drastically over the past few decades. Since the Shilohs split away from the dogs of the 60's and 70's even the size has decreased drastically on both sides!!   Over the past decade there have been many debates between the two sides (German v. American), with a lot of structural finger pointing going on!  The Germans claim that the American dogs have no nerve (are cowardly) and over angulated (the severe slope) and the Americans claim that the German "show" dogs are overly aggressive and extremely hyper, with "banana backs" that are ugly and non-functional!   If you have the time, you may want to read some web pages in order to get a better understanding of what has been happening in both camps
Frown

This link will take you to a page that was written FOR the American version, showing some horrible pics of German winners Frown American V German

This link will tell you the other side of the story   Echte-DSH Abteilungsmenü: Die vielen verschiedenen Deutschen Schäferhunde von Amerika.
Although the owner of this site is very biased against anything NOT German (including the Shiloh) he does bring out some good points, and reading his web pages, with a grain of salt, can be very instructive to anyone that wants to "see" behind the smoke and mirrors!!  North American breeders, unorganised, helpless, hopeless, easy targets

If you would prefer to read an unbiased, realistic, accurate history of the GSD, you should certainly read this one!!   A history of the German shepherd dog.  
For a stronger (more emotional) perspective of the same history (with pictures) you should read  German-American GSD split, American show-only ShepherdsI have also found this  Viewpoint of an East German Shepherd  page to be very honest and interesting Wink
There are many others all over the Internet that you can glean from!!  I will stop here, and let you continue to do your own research regarding the GSD of today.


2. Now that you have had a chance to see the various "types" and "temperaments" that are involved in the GSD, you may be able to better understand why it would be extremely dangerous to use dogs with so much baggage as an outcross to our Shilohs!  Not only would we be losing the "type" and size we are trying to maintain, but we would be sacrificing temperament and opening the doors wide for all kinds of new potential health issues that we don't want to deal with!   Keep in mind that even if you do manage to find a "nice" one, he will be carrying all of the baggage that you have just been reading about!

"Please keep in mind that .... A dog is the product of its genotype, or genes, acting in a specific environment. Its phenotype is an expression of both the genotype and the environment. Four modes of inheritance cause most genetic defects in dogs: autosomal recessive or simple recessive; autosomal dominant; sex-linked recessive; and polygenic."

As  explained in  Today's Breeder Magazine - Issue 32 - The Genetic Gamble   as well as other web articles, like Animal Health Trust | Canine Genome (page 6) because ...... "More than 350 inherited diseases have been described in pedigree dogs, and in many cases the high frequency of disease within a breed reflects the small number of dogs used to found the different breeds and the subsequent inbreeding which has taken place."

It is because of these issues (hundreds of canine diseases) that we have to use such caution when selecting ANY line to incorporate into our Shiloh Shepherds™, as an outcross ... to insure that we are not bringing in much bigger problems then we are trying to "wash out" of our gene pool!!!

Before choosing any NB (outcross) line, very careful research has to be conducted on at least 7 - 9 generations of ancestors that are in this dog's pedigree .... and not only the actual ancestors, but their littermates as well!!  The more information we can gather, the less risk we will be taking!!  I have always called it "stacking my deck"  Frown

We cannot accept documentation like this nonsense that the "Oxymuda" slivers are using!

If you look at the various websites of GSD breeders, you will find that most of them do not have their own kennel name listed on most of the dogs in their pedigree, furthermore even if they do show up in the first few generations you will NOT see them again if you continue to trace the pedigree further back!  This only proves that this person does not have personal knowledge of the dogs involved in their gene pool.  They have selected a stud via a pretty piece of paper, rather then via knowledge of the genetic makeup of that dog's true ancestral heritage!!  BIG DIFFERENCE!!  I have spent weeks searching the Internet, looking for breeders that have some longevity to show off, and have not found one as of yet!!  What ever happened to the "old timers" that stayed true to their lines for many decades??  I cannot seem  to find that old type of reasoning anywhere!  It appears to me that people tend to "follow the herd" and breed to the biggest winners, or highest titled dogs, just because it "looks" good, without any future projection plan in mind Frown



Back in the 80's when I chose to use Sabrina as one of my outcrosses (yes, I had tried others that failed prior to this and their names do not show up in any Shiloh pedigrees, so I will just focus on those that do) I spent many days during various visits with her breeder, researching his lines, discussing the dogs in his pedigree, looking at pictures of these dogs ... the puppies they produced ... the littermates as they matured, etc. etc.  Don had a plan that he had been following for many decades, and now he was sharing his knowledge about those lines, their faults and virtues, etc. with me, so that I would be able to utilize his gene pool to its best advantage!  That's what a good breeder is all about!!  You can look at his pedigrees and see his name for many generations, and not only that, you can clearly follow the inbreeding program he mapped out for himself!!

BTW. a lot of specific details about this dog have already been saved on our forums.  Please join and read my posts for yourself!

When I chose to use the ADS as my next outcross nearly a decade later, I did the same thing again!!  I spent years searching those lines!!  (My full story is published in the March/July 1998 SSDCA newsletter.) In the mid '90's there was nothing about them on the Internet. I found all of my contacts via German Magazines!!  It took tons of phone calls (no, I don't speak fluent German, but my Mom does .. so it got to be very expensive, since she LOVES to talk! LOL) and lots of pictures and letters back and forth before I made my final selection.  I had to pass up a few good potentials due to lack of LMX data on some of the dogs in the gene pool.  I knew what I was looking for (a needle in a hay stack) and was relentless about finding it!! Wink

Due to the fact that linebreeding is not allowed within the ADS community, I had to talk to many people that were involved in this particular gene pool, sort of like folks will be doing with us a decade from now.  Thank God for the strict rules these folks have to follow, because it enabled me to obtain the information I needed in order to make my final decision regarding the dog and particular line I selected to incorporate into our Shilohs
Wink Since that time, of course, we have continued to closely monitor his progeny for several generations and I have not found any potential "surprises" that I was not aware of!! 

My next NB came from the White Shepherd line (now fully FCI recognized as the   White Swiss Shepherd Dog). He was an AWSA dog (White Shepherd Club of Canadabred by Joanne Chanyi of Hoofprint kennels.  Again, it took several years of searching before making this choice, and once again  JC rose to the occasion by providing me with the detailed LMX data that I needed in order to make that choice.  She is a shining example of what a breeder should be!!

If you take the time to visit 
White German Shepherd Dog Club International, Inc.™  you will find some excellent educational links, and if you search those pages, you will find the Hoofprint kennel name peppered throughout!!  What a wonderful  legacy this  breeder will be leaving for many generations to come!! 

Just take a look at the new  introduction, then be sure to visit  Service Dogs  because if you read carefully, you will see Hoofprint or Joanne mentioned over and over again!!  Just think .. out of  so many (over 5,000 according to AWSA)  White Shepherds registered yearly, JC has been able to get her name "in lights" on a regular basis .. for many decades now!!  BTW .. be sure to read about Beth's  SAR Czar, he was closely related to our Orbit Wink

JC's pedigree's speak for themselves, you can see how she outlined her "blueprint" for her   HoofPrint dogs!  She didn't outcross to unknowns, but weaved the perfect tapestry that has been rewarded over and over again every time her name shines forth!

That is what good REB's are all about .... not just producing a litter of pups without any serious knowledge of the dogs in the ancestral gene pool they are using!!


 

Question 10. Why is it so important to investigate the littermates, and not just the parents, when you are planning a breeding?


Answer:

Although it is commonly thought that pups will resemble their parents, the fact is that most puppies do not!!  In the past 4 decades, producing thousands of puppies, I have witnessed that most of them will either resemble a grandparent or one of the dogs they are linebred on much more readily then either parent!!  Back in the 60's I learned from my mentors (old time breeders that had already established their own lines) that you will see the "shadow dog" in your gene pool a lot more often then any of the dogs listed in your pedigree!!
 

So how can you determine what your "shadow dog" looks like?? 

Or can this even be done??

Actually, it is not as complicated as it sounds!  In order to help you grasp the most basic concept of this, let me use a  few "breeds" as examples;

For instance, you have a dog that looks like a Golden Retriever and you want to breed her to another dog that looks a lot like her, so the best you can find is one that resembles a Yellow Lab. 

This looks promising so you breed this pair, but the pups look more like Collies, with a few "golden" Irish Setters thrown in.  What happened?  Well, to begin with, your bitch's sire was a pure bred Collie that came from generations of linebred Collies before him, thus setting that type. Her dam was part Golden Retriever, and resembled one, but she was the only one in the litter with that phenotype.  Her littermates were very inconsistent, with some that favored the Border Collie in their lines, while others resembled a mixture of  Sheltie and Shepherd due to their other ancestors.  If you had investigated the stud you had chosen,  you would have also found that he had Irish Setter and some Collie blood in his family tree as well, and some of his littermates resembled those dogs more then they did their Lab ancestors!  When the recessive Collie genes, from both sides, "clicked"  it was inevitable that some of the pups would resemble Collies more so then their parents!

Well, this can't happen with purebred dogs, right?  Not as dramatically, but various recessives are carried by each pup. You won't know which one picked up which recessives until they are bred.  However, you can hedge your bets by studying the lines carefully and profiling the possibilities.
Wink 

The same system can be  used to estimate other characteristics as well!  For example, I used my LMX system in order to predict the probability (risk) of CHD.  If you look at the charts I drew up for my Practical Genetics article (that was published in the German Shepherd Quarterly back in the late 70's) you can clearly see how the 3 leg - 4 leg recessives can be carried for several generations, only to show up again when you least expect them!!

I used to use  crayons and  box cars to help people to better understand these principles ... I even held seminars where everyone got to do some neat "paper" breedings via baggies full of dominant and recessive "characteristics" in order to get a clearer understanding!  Suffice it to say that unless you know as much as possible about the LMI (Litter Mate Information) data behind the dogs in your pedigree, you can never be sure of what you will find in your whelping box!!

We also have dozens of great links to some articles that you may want to read in the genetics section of our  The Shiloh Shepherd™ Learning Center.

So how can a potential new puppy owner hedge their bets when talking to "breeders"?

1. Ask the person how long they have been working with this particular breed--not just producing puppies, but developing a specific plan!

2. Ask that person to name the 10 best dogs they have owned, write down their names,  then ask for a 7 generation pedigree on each of these dogs and study it carefully!

It shouldn't be difficult for you to see a specific kennel name showing up many times--contact the owner of that kennel, because he/she will probably know more about those lines than the person attempting to sell you a pup from them!

3. Keep in mind that "hobby breeders" often don't last more then 5 years. Unless they are working directly with a REB you should seriously question their motivation for producing puppies!  Investigate B-4-U Invest.  Please take a look at our Breeder Matrix before you chooses a breeder! The one you are about to contact may already have fallen from the I.S.S.R. or never have been associated with it!

Buyer Beware: Registry Comparisons

The facts listed below are being presented in an attempt to warn the public regarding the "fraudulent" scams that they could encounter while investigating the Shiloh Shepherd.

 

Question 11.  

Is extensive knowledge of the littermates of your breeding stock the most important consideration when choosing breeding partners?


Answer:

Yes, without a true knowledge regarding the littermates we would just be guessing as to the recessives our dogs may carry.  A contractor would certainly not attempt to build a large shopping mall without a blueprint, and a conscientious breeder should not attempt to improve or expand any gene pool without many generations of documented knowledge regarding the potential pitfalls within that particular breed!

If a builder ends up with crooked doors, or misplaced windows, it certainly would not be as devastating as a family  being forced to lose a beloved companion!  Show faults are minor "beauty" imperfections that most people wouldn't even recognize, and  can certainly live with! Temperament and health issues are another story, and they must be carefully documented, via  full LMI disclosures provided for by a reputable registry that is set up to maintain this data!  The 
ISSR  has continued to maintain records on all Shiloh Shepherds™ born, since the initial inception of this breed!  A complete listing of every litter born is available on our Internet pages, along with many other charts documenting this breed's progress ... as it continues its development!!   ISSR Inc Registered Litters 1991-2007      and be sure to check out all of our other  ISSR Charts  continuously being updated for your convenience Wink

I incorporated my LMX data into my breeding program nearly 3 decades ago, and then I  wrote my  History of the Littermate X-Ray Program (LMX)  for all future Shiloh Shepherd™ breeders, but as I surfed the web today, I noticed that there are many other great articles out there promoting the same theory!  May I suggest that you take some time to read Dr. Bell's   Developing a Better Breeding Program and be sure to note his wisdom!  I would like to quote a short piece of, what I feel is one of the most important paragraphs in that article: 

"A mistake of some breeders is to think that selection against carriers is unnecessary, as long as affected dogs are not produced. You should never select more carrier offspring in the next generation than the average frequency of carriers in the population. By not selecting against carriers in breeding stock, you are selecting for a carrier frequency of 50 percent, much higher than most breed averages. This almost guarantees that half the quality dogs in your next generation will be carriers."
 

The slivers seem to be putting a great deal of emphasis on "health testing" but it's just another ploy to deceive the consumer! "Health testing" is great-- and standard procedure for all ISSR breeding dogs, but it's only a small part of the big picture that needs to be properly evaluated prior to selecting potential breeding pairs!

The Shiloh Shepherd was built on LMI/LMX  data and that is what sets us apart from other breeds.

The ISSR is the only credible registry that continued to maintain these strict requirements!

How can we determine who the potential carriers are??  It's easy if we have access to the LMI data! Wink

I would also like to strongly urge you to read Breeding Healthier Dogs by Martine Huslig.

For a deeper study into this subject, may I recommend that you also visit the web pages listed in our  Other Links and then take a few moments to read some of the great articles on  Breeding  listed on this site, especially  Dog-Play: Making a Difference: Being a Responsible Dog Breeder !! For more information, please be sure to read our Health Survey 2000 reports.

Health Survey (2000) and Ongoing Genetic Task Force Database:
 

Importance of the health survey
(Summer 2000)

Health Survey 2000
(a word from the Breed founder)

Health Survey 2000 Preliminary Results
(SPRING SSDCA NEWSLETTER 2001)
Health Survey 2000 Final Results
 
(Fall SSDCA NEWSLETTER 2001, includes Dr. Padgett's report)
GTF Database
(Reported diseases from 2000 Health Survey)
Ongoing On-Line Health Survey
(IF YOU OWN A Shiloh Shepherd™ WHO IS OVER 1 YEAR OF AGE, WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO FILL OUT THIS SURVEY!)
Ongoing Development of Shiloh Shepherd 1990's and Beyond
 
Question 12. 

 Is there any  other protocol that you use when making various breeding decisions?


Answer:

Of course!  Each potential pairing has to be evaluated on its own merits as follows:

First and foremost the structural compatibility of the  individuals involved has to be examined.  You cannot expect to breed a tall dog with a short dog in order to produce medium sized pups.  For example; If you have a very "leggy" bitch, you should attempt to breed her to a stud that not only has the proper proportions, but has also been known to produce them!  You also have to bear in mind that even though there is no such thing as a "perfect" dog, you certainly would not want to breed two dogs together that carry the same conformation faults!!

Once you have made the initial determination that these two would be compatible, you need to examine all of the littermates on both sides.  This will help you to determine the "shadow dog" that each of them also carries as a recessive, so that you can get a better idea of what this particular pairing will be likely to produce!  If you do some intense pedigree research, listing all of the Dominant and Recessive faults and virtues on both sides, (going back 7-9 generations) you should have a very good idea of what to expect in the progeny you are producing!!

For more details with recent pictures and pedigrees, please take a moment to view Pedigrees of Real ISSR Shiloh Shepherds.

However, since you are working with a breed that is still under development, and has an extremely limited gene pool that has been created via heavy inbreeding .... it is imperative that you dig much deeper in order to avoid some potentially lethal problems!  Now it is time to examine the Relationship Coefficients carefully in order to keep those numbers as low as possible!! We have several articles explaining these tools that all conscientious breeders should be using! 

Please take the time to read the following articles carefully.   Coefficient of Inbreeding  was written in 1998, then be sure to read  Inbreeding (when is too much -- really too much?) and then don't miss out on  Another Breeding Tool which even has some great (old) sample RC reports for you to look at Wink

Shiloh Shepherds Pedigree Examples

Genetic Diversity - the Dark Side of Inbreeding  is certainly one of the best articles available on the web, that every person interested in breeding .... or even buying ..... a Shiloh Shepherd™ should certainly read!  It may help you to better understand what should be happening "behind" the scenes!Wink

People often tend to blame a particular stud or even both parents for the SEVERE HEALTH problem they are now experiencing with their dog, yet often it was caused strictly due to the genetic overload created by a high RC factor!

 

PROTECT YOURSELF--AVOID IC's THAT RUN OVER 20% and refuse ANY PUPPY whose true RC runs over 35% and don't trust 10 generation or incomplete data RC's! Order the real thing via the ISSR database of over 700 million ancestors!!  Don't Fall 4 The Fraud! and allow your family to purchase such highly inbred dogs nor the GSD mixes that the slivers are "passing off" as "Shilohs"!

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER--PROTECT YOUR FAMILY!

Don't fall for the hype! Are you honestly willing to pay thousands of dollars for a hybrid GSD that will produce pups like this

Buyer Beware!

 


For a listing of other great articles, please be sure to visit the
  Canine Diversity Homepage.

Of course we have a lot more articles and links available on our web site, so be sure to check out  The Shiloh Shepherd™ Learning Center: Site Map.

As with all matters associated with the Shiloh, the  charlatans out there seem to find a way to plagiarize everything I have done! I have seen RC reports that have been run by such imitators, using incomplete (and often inaccurate) data! I have personally devoted thousands of hours of my time over the past 14 years to assure the stringent accuracy of all ISSR data, error riddled files were always dumped, although at one point some of that trash was confiscated by a person associated with one of the imitator  groups, and it soon wormed its way into their database.

Even if the data used was accurate, unless a complete 30-32 generation RC is run, the report you will get can be very skewed, just look at this quick example!

I did an RC on a  Non-ISSR breeding recently promoted on the web to use as an example here. The relation coefficient only  ran a 35.2% but unfortunately all of the puppies died **4 days after this page was published** and the grief stricken breeders went on a rampage all over the BB's accusing me of being the personification of evil Confused

So I have replaced that example with a combination that was recently bred, because I have no data on the final disposition of any of the pups associated with this litter, nor am I aware of any specific health issues that may have effected any of the progeny.  I am only using a real litter to show an example of a typical RC report for a Non-ISSR breeding.  However, due to the abuse I had to suffer because of the original publication, I will not (publicly) name the Sire and Dam involved in this breeding!
 

Max Generations 4 32
Inbreeding Coefficient 21.9% 28.5%
Relationship Coefficient 40.6% 49.6%
Total Ancestors Found 30 98,776,256
Duplicate Ancestors Found  (for this breeding combination) 14 98,774,512
Calculations provided through Breeder's Assistant for Dogs software, Professional Edition, licensed to International Shiloh Shepherd™ Registry, Inc.

Please note: The ISSR has 716,266,588 Shiloh Shepherd ancestors presently in our database. This number includes extended data on the MAW and other NB lines that have never been revealed to anyone! The above chart may only show data  based upon just over 36% of the available ancestors therefore it is imperative to order a legitimate RC from the ISSR, because the other (self-proclaimed) bogus "registries" are not dealing with a full deck!. 

 

This pedigree consists of:
Kari 17.6% Ursa 19.6%
Sabrina 37.5% NB 0%
 
As you can see, the Sabrina  influence is twice as high as the Kari, thus throwing off the proper balance we need in order to produce QUALITY dogs that meet the desired Breed Standard! Be sure to view Sample Pedigrees of Real ISSR Shiloh Shepherds.
 

Please note the results we got from this quick report!! what about other breedings that have been promoted OUTSIDE of the ISSR? What would the RC charts show if we dug even deeper? Since their LIMITED access of former ISSR Shilohs is extremely small, they have no alternative other then to inbreed on the available dogs, and then their progeny, thus inbreeding even more!

What do these numbers really mean? Why is 49.6% so horrible? What about the RC's that "only" run in the mid '30's?

Well, why don't we compare each % with a tax bill you just received from the IRS. If they told you that you owed $7000 in back taxes, maybe that would be difficult to live with, but what if they told you that you owed nearly $50,000? Could you pay it easily? Well, most people would have a hard time--but certainly not as hard as the poor puppies being forced to live with diseases that could literally turn their young lives into a nightmare.

An Analogy

If you are not comfortable thinking about the IRS, why don't we try this analogy.

Let's say you are going to make a large pot of coffee.  You pour it into a 10 cup carafe and you add cream, now you are going to add one teaspoon of sugar for each % of the RC.  The above RC would equal 4.9 cups of sugar! How many teaspoons is that? 15-20-25-40-45? More? How many teaspoons can you add before you have ruined the entire pot?

We could say the same about salt! You have just prepared a fantastic potato salad for your family, how many good shakes of salt can you add to it? If 7 would be just right, 14 a bit much, what would 49 tablespoons of salt do to your great salad?

If you try to look at Inbreeding in the same way, it might be easier to comprehend how a little can be very good, while too much can ruin it completely!

So let's see if we can get a better understanding of what RC's are all about.

Of course, any study about RC's had to include all of the great web pages written by Dr. Armstrong, even his basic Relation article is just loaded with excellent information & charts Wink

Then of course we can move up to more detailed studies, like those provided on the Concordance System v0.2 - coefficient of relationship link pages!!

The articles I wrote several years ago

actually pale in comparison to all of the great information that is now available all over the Internet!!

Now, let's just take a quick look at what some of the experts have to say about the relationship between inbreeding and health issues.

From Genetic Diversity: the Dark Side of Inbreeding by Catherine Marley

<<You get into the heavily "loaded" state only by inbreeding. Using the "wholesale genetic slaughter" method, even if it were practically possible, will not cure the problem in this inbred population, because the real culprit is not the defective gene, but the inbreeding. Besides you have to wonder what you will have left when you are finished. The dogs are still inbred, with all the problems that go along with inbreeding.  In fact, they are twice as inbred as when you started, because you threw away half the genes. You won't have much of the genetic disease you select against, but maybe you won't have dogs either.>>

Inbreeding, Linebreeding and Crossbreeding from NSAE News Vol 1 N6

<<Intensive inbreeding (and resulting increased homozygosity) is often directly related to an increase in the expression of many undesirable traits. Therefore, the linebreeder should carefully study pedigrees for each prospective mating and determine if, and how closely.>>

From J. Jeffrey Bragg's Purebred Dog Breeds  into the Twenty-first Century: Achieving Genetic Health for our Dogs

<<The gene frequency figure is a ratio of the number of copies of alternate versions of a gene in the population, independent of the number of animals involved and of whether they have the gene in homozygous or heterozygous form. An individual may have two copies of the same allele or it may have one or none. For example, if a locus has two alleles, and the population involved consists of fifty animals, and there are 25 copies of one allele, then the frequency for that allele is 0.25; therefore the frequency of the other allele must be 0.75, with 75 copies of it in the same population. It must be emphasised that gene frequency by itself says nothing about relative heterozygosity or homozygosity; it deals only with quantitative aspects of alleles in the population, not the diploid genotype of individuals.>>

The best article I have been able to find ... easy for newbies to understand is on  CIDD- Introduction.

For the more serious student I would like to recommend the  Canine Diversity Homepage and even possibly joining the  Canine Genetics Discussion Group.  If you are interested in participating in on-going discussion of canine genetics and breeding (as related to genetic health), with a strong emphasis on diversity, send a message to The list Owner asking to be added to the group.

Bottom Line

Although inbreeding can be a wonderful tool in the hands of an experienced breeder that has a long term goal in mind (like setting a specific "type: of "breed") it can be as dangerous as placing a surgical scalpel in the hands of a silly monkey in a lab coat! Demand to see the true RC report on your pup and be prepared to ask your breeder some serious questions about it!


 

Question 13. 

What type of Health Issues are ISSR breeders concerned with??


Answer:

We are concerned with every type of health issue that could effect the future welfare of this breed!  For that reason the ISSR instituted the biggest  independent Health Survey this breed has ever known, and it has continued collecting data for the past 3 years!!  During each phase of this survey, we have provided complete reports via our web sites.  Please take the time to follow the FULL history of our Health Survey 2000!!!

It all started with  The Importance of the Health SurveyThen we published our  ISSR, Inc. Health Survey 2000 Update  with the preliminary results collected as of early 2001, keeping everyone informed as we progressed with our research!  This was followed with continuous updates as we collected more data!   ISSR HEALTH SURVEY UPDATE 2001

During Homecoming 2001 Dr. Padgett  was invited to present us with his findings, and help all of the future breeders by teaching us how to use the results from this survey in order to breed better Shilohs for all future generations.  His efforts were extremely successful, and we wanted to continue collecting even more data!!  Some of the GTF members chose to continue the task force via the new  Shiloh Shepherd™ GTF Homepage, where additional data is continuously  documented, sorted and added to our ever expanding database!!

Furthermore, the ISSR instigated the 5 star program, as of last year, and it is already in heavy use by many of the Licensed Breeders that want to add some of those stars to their dogs' names Wink

We are not interested in issuing "bogus" papers for puppies, in order to get higher prices for them.  Our goals are geared toward the complete improvement of this entire breed, so that healthier pups can be born for all future generations to enjoy!!!

I don't want anyone to think that this is not an important issue ... of course we should test our dogs .... BUT .... what many breeders don't bother to consider is the BIG picture Frown

Specific testing helps us to determine what the individual dog may pass on to his progeny, but it will NOT show us what he carries in his recessive baggage, and that is where MOST of the diseases are hiding!

For example ... CHD is not "just" passed on via the individual ... that is why so many OFA good dogs will produce problem pups! Please take a few moments to read THIS page SLOWLY "CIDD Introduction

another example .......

"The mode of inheritance is not known for ASDs, but many cardiac defects are believed to have a  polygenic mode of inheritance, with variable expression. However recent studies suggest a series of single major gene defects may be responsible for inherited heart defects in both dogs and people."  Atrial Septal Defect

I am not looking for specific breeds ... just some pages on genetics that you need to look at in order to better understand that things AINT <lol> as simple as some people think they are!!

The Internet is LOADED with excellent articles on this subject .. even the OFA
Wink

"Unfortunately, most inherited traits, including inherited diseases, are probably polygenic. They have a complex mode of inheritance influenced by multiple gene pairs. To date, no DNA tests have been developed to identify the specific combination of mutant genes responsible for any polygenic disorders.
Therefore, decisions regarding a dog's suitability for breeding purposes rely on phenotypic evaluations. The complexity of polygenic traits results in a wide range of expression, from least to most desirable. It is the reason why two dogs of ideal conformation may produce offspring less than ideal, and the reason why the mating of two dogs that are phenotypically normal for a disease may produce affected offspring."
The OFA and the Role of Canine Health Databases

So how can we deal with these serious health issues that cannot be revealed via simple testing of individuals?? EASY ...... we have set up our data base (right from the git go) to TRACK these issues via the LMI and PER reports Wink
 
To top it off, we have gone beyond all barriers by setting up our GTF disease database that can track trends as well as cross reference all of our data with our ISSR info to provide us with a FULL picture of recessives that are in our breed & the CARRIERS that we must be careful not to breed together!! THAT is the secret to producing BETTER dogs!!

****Please note: our ISSR database does not consist of 50 or 100--or even 200 dogs! We already have over 3000 dogs born within the ISSR entered and more are added on a continuous basis!!****

Update: As of October 2006 we have expanded our database to include LMX/LMI data on over 47,000 as well as expanding our database to include 716,330,370  of their ancestors!

Please try to understand this basic principle ....... all breeds have carriers for various diseases, even if you can't see it by looking at the dog OR "test" it any way .. other than.. via the LMI - PER type of system!

There is NOTHING wrong with a dog that IS a "carrier" **if we tried to eliminate them all, we wouldn't have ANYTHING left to breed to!** the ONLY thing we need to be concerned with is **identifying** the various carriers & NOT breeding them together!!
It really is THAT simple!!

That is why we are working so hard to continuously collect this data, so that we can breed the BEST dogs possible Wink
 

Please be sure to do your part to make our Shilohs the best they can be! Enter your ISSR dog's data today!

 

Question 14. What about the Shiloh Shepherd™ dog owners that did not participate in the health survey?


Answer:

a. They are doing a great disservice to every person that plans to own a real Shiloh Shepherd™ in the future, because they are literally endangering its very survival!

b. They are jeopardizing their own chances of ever owning another one! The normal expected longevity of our breed averages about 14 years. If they have a young dog now, they may not care about the immediate future. Fine, but a day will come in 10-15-20 years from now when they will want another dog like the one they had--and there may not be any real Shilohs still in existence!

We must remember that this "breed" is still under development! Until we have been able to establish a gene base that is broad enough to sustain itself, we are still in the building process--and this must include a diligent screening process that will eliminate any dogs that can pollute the entire gene pool with deadly diseases that would certainly prevent this "breed" from moving forward.

 

We must also keep in mind that this breed has been BUILT on LMI data, without it we cannot expect to continue producing the quality dogs that we have grown to love so much!!
 


You  may hear people, from various groups,  talking about "collecting data" and this foolishness may give you an unfounded sense of security, but don't be misled because all that you are hearing about is being purported upon you via some very good "smoke & mirror" maneuvers, not via any kind of reality! 
Don't fall for these false illusions ..... take some time to research the FACTS!!

We have all heard the saying "two sides to every story" well, there are LOL Two Sides of Deadly Genes  too, and you should take a moment to read this short page!!  I think you will find it quit interestingWink

The links that I am dropping for you are NOT "canine" specific, but very educational!  For example 
Perinatal Assessment Center: Genetic Carrier Testing  tells us that

"People without a known family history of a disease can be carriers. This is true even if you already have healthy children. This is because we all carry non-working genes that we don't know about."

But be sure to keep in mind the comparison between the number of babies a couple may have v. the number of puppies produced by just one pair of dogs!!  We must also keep in mind that inbreeding (and all pure bred dogs are inbred to some degree) tends to increase the frequency for a larger concentration of specific genes that need to be carefully monitored!!

This site has some very basic charts that you may find helpful  All About Genetics, genes,chromosomes,cells,mitochondria,genetic disorders, birth defects,genetic disease  in better grasping the entire "carrier" concept Wink

Now let's move on to the canine world and take a look at some of the progress that is being made. 
The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club - Canine Genome <<Unfortunately, DNA testing is only available for a few diseases, thus far, so we still have to deal with all of the other <345> in the old fashioned way, by finding the carriers, so that 2 that carry the same disease are NOT bred together, perpetuating this problem any further! >>

Dr. Bell does a great job at addressing this difficult issue of  PROPER selection, in order to save the baby, while still getting rid of the bathwater!!
Reproduction - Interview With Jerold Bell, DVM

This is the goal that every dedicated ISSR breeder is striving for, but in order to attain it, we desperately need the cooperation of EVERY Shiloh Shepherd™ owner, especially the pets!!  By providing the GTF (ISSR genetic task force) with the needed data on all puppies born, we can then make better breeding choices that will benefit the ENTIRE breed for many generations to come
Wink

Unfortunately the many imitators out there have been trying desperately to "lull" owners into thinking that data is being collected by various "registries" so they didn't need to do their part for this fantastic breed while they continue to criticize what they don't fully understand.... the truth is very simply that;

a) during the original "splintering" less then 50 dogs actually "left" the ISSR .... and some of those returned during the amnesty!  Please take some time to read the entire story of the   
CLUB HISTORY  and then take a look at our recent  Shiloh Shepherd™ History: The First 45 Years  chart that will give you a clear picture of the honest timeline!

b) most of the breedings that have happened on the "dark side" consisted of extreme inbreeding, mostly on the "Shep" line, or total outcrossing to GSD's from Import (East German or Czech) heritage, none of which would provide us with a true representation of genetic information, as related to what WE are doing within the ISSR.

c) none of the "bits
and pieces" of information that they may have collected, on the extremely small sampling (less than 10%) of potentially  "true" Shiloh Shepherds™ that they have (inbred or outcrossed to) has included any of the NB dogs that we have been using since the introduction of Artus in '99 and then Orbit in 2000, therefore it would not provide us with any of the needed genetic data anyway!

DON'T FALL 4 THE Fraud!

The only time we gain any useable information that can be utilized for the future betterment of our breed is via some of the horrible anomalies they have encountered due to their practice of extreme-over-inbreeding!

Things like  Intestinal Lymphangiectasia and others have never been seen in any ISSR puppy produced, but  knowing about these diseases  and our ability to properly research the RC and potential carrier factors that we DO have access to can continue to protect our gene pool against getting too close to any of the pitfalls that the imitators seem to keep falling into!

In conclusion ... what the various "little groups" are doing is nothing more then an attempt at trying to mimic what the true ISSR breeders are  working hard toward accomplishing    <the collection of true LMI data> in an attempt to fool the public into thinking that they are working toward the same goals Frown

Even if they did manage to collect any amount of data, who would be responsible for processing it?  With so many "independent-private" "registries" where is the main hub located?  On a public yahoo list group? HONESTLY!!  Don't they even have a real "parent" CLUB that each of these "registries" have to answer to??  I have never heard of such nonsense happening within any other breed!!  Yes, maybe "splinter" *clubs* but
a whole bunch of "registries" without ANY "club" at all??  What are they doing with the money each of those groups is collecting as "registration fees"??  Are these "registries" properly incorporated, or just privately owned?  Are the individuals collecting these funds claiming them as income in their private tax return or is this money just padding their pockets? What happens when they just "shut down"? Do the puppy owners have to pay again to get papers from another one of these oxyMuda registries? Frown

Hmmmmmm interesting!!  LOL

2006 Update

As of late 2004 they did manage to start a "club" but they also have added MORE "registries" and the officers continue to change! The obvious "reason" for the formation of this "club" was based on their need to sell more puppies! New web pages seem to be springing up with more "available" pups that are already hitting 3-4-5 months of age!

What is wrong with this picture?

The ISSR breeders hardly ever have any "left over" pups to sell!

As of 9/06 we have noted that the dissidents are promoting 9 new litters, with 4 additional ones due shortly, while still having dozens of "older" puppies "available" since spring! Some of the people who bred them have actually been seen giving them away FEE, or trying to "get rid of them" via Live Auctions!

Before buying a Shiloh Shepherd puppy from anyone- Investigate the breeder! If you have read this Q&A, you probably know more about these dogs than they do!

 
Question 15.

How can you avoid the dangers of over inbreeding, eliminate potentially lethal carriers,  and still maintain the true Shiloh Shepherd™ type??


Answer:

Easy!! Wink

#1.  All we have to do is to follow a very carefully planned out breeding program that includes the collection of LMX data via our Genetic Task force and the ISSR database that already collects all LMI information!!

#2.  We have to continue to add properly selected NB dogs into our gene pool in order to avoid some of the dangerous bottlenecks.  Then know how to cross those revived lines with each other, at the right time, in order to maintain the desired type!!

This process, although a lot more complicated then it may sound, is not that difficult if it is properly planned and carefully followed by a group of dedicated breeders that have the same vision!! 

For example, it is no different then building a large shopping mall complex!  First you need the right blueprint, then experts in each of the required fields (plumbing, carpentry, etc.) and one person to direct the entire project as per the blueprint!!  In other words .. it takes a good team effort to get the job done RIGHT! Wink

As  the breed founder, I have the vision .... and it has not changed since the day I named my dogs **Shiloh Shepherds™** please read my  What's In a Name  and  Kennel of Origin--The Real History of the Shiloh Shepherds™  pages as well as my more recent history.  

With this vision in mind I designed the Breed Standard   for these dogs, as well as the  ISSR, Inc.:  Rules and Regulations  and set the specific criteria in order to protect all future generations.  Then I invited many  ISSR Licensed Shiloh Shepherd™ Breeders to help me with the expansion of this gene pool, so that someday our dogs COULD become a recognized breed!!

Of course this entailed the signing of (and compliance with) the  ISSR, Inc. Licensed Breeders Agreement  unfortunately ... that proved to be too difficult for some to live with Frown  thus we ended up with many of the dissidents that we are dealing with today!  Where did they come from? Just study my new Licensed Breeder Matrix and you will be able to chart each one of them! Or you may visit our Shiloh Wall of Shame!

Nevertheless, I would like to assure you that our future is very bright!  The last 2 NB dogs I weaved into our lines, to provide us with the desperately needed hybrid vigor, have proven themselves to be excellent choices and are now being crossed together in order to allow us to continue maintaining the desired type, without having to deal with the horrors brought on by an improperly implemented inbreeding program! 

Because of the careful planning involved in our program, we are still able to linebreed on the fantastic Shiloh heroes that everyone has grown to admire so much, without having to worry about partaking in the risks associated with over-inbreeding!!

Just look at these color coded pedigrees of some of our future litters!

Now I would like to share some examples of the upcoming ISSR-planned DNB combinations:

Max Generations 4 32
Inbreeding Coefficient 3.1% 15.3%
Relationship Coefficient 6.2% 27.4%
Total Ancestors Found (for this breeding combination) 30 551,383,699
Calculations provided through Breeder's Assistant for Dogs software, Professional Edition, licensed to International Shiloh Shepherd™ Registry, Inc.

We have prepared a RC for "Super Stud" (Nico/Lillie) who has not been born yet, bred to a young bitch that is already being shown. He is a NB3 from the Orbit line, and his IC was 12.6 and his RC was up to 23.3, but by crossing him with an Artus NB2 bitch (Jersey) whose IC was 9.5% and RC only rose to 17.7%. we are able to still keep the numbers within an acceptable range while focusing heavily on Inbreeding to the top Shiloh dogs--without having to deal the the pitfalls associated with OVER inbreeding! In other words, we can wash out the "bad" genes while still focusing heavily on the good ones that have always made this breed what it was meant to be.

Another good example of this type of program would be the future Reba/Thunder breeding.

Max Generations 4 32
Inbreeding Coefficient 2.3% 13.7%
Relationship Coefficient 4.6% 24.5%
Total Ancestors Found  (for this breeding combination) 30 600,184,891
Calculations provided through Breeder's Assistant for Dogs software, Professional Edition, licensed to International Shiloh Shepherd™ Registry, Inc.

Again, we are dealing with a male that has an IC of 8.2% and a RC of only 15.0 bred to a bitch whose IC comes to 15.5% and RC reaches only 27.4%. Both are well within the safety zone

Over the past decade we have been able to clearly document the problems that we have witnessed within most breedings whose IC has surpassed the 19% SAFETY limit that the ISSR set over a decade ago.

Even ISSR breeders that have insisted on testing those limits have been met with grave disappointments!

Buyer beware--insist on (or order) a legitimate RC from a reputable registry that has a complete database before purchasing any puppy from any breeder!

2006 Update -- Don't be fooled by the fake IC (inbreeding coefficient) numbers being generated by incomplete databases! Insist on viewing the entire report!

Please note: in 2006 we have extensively expanded our data and are utilizing some of this information into our color coded pedigree samples.  Please take a few minutes to view at least one or more of these projected ISSR breedings that we are planning.

Leah / Basco   |  Mia / Acer | She's the One / Warba

2011 Update

We have continued to expand our ISSR ancestral database and now have access to over one million ancestors.  This allows us to run the most detailed RC reports ever!! Don't let the frauds fool you with their lies!! We have the data!!

Shiloh Shepherds Pedigree Examples

 
Question 16. How much importance do you place on Good Hips, Huge Size and Stable Temperament of the Shiloh Shepherd™?


Answer:

Without those 3 "biggies" you wouldn't have a Shiloh Shepherd™!  My focus has always been on producing huge size, and despite what you may hear from the dissidents, the REAL Shiloh Shepherds™ **DO**  get that big!!  It is not unusual for some males to reach up to 32" in height at the withers!!  Even though most only reach approximately 30" it is still closer to the standard of a St. Bernard, or even Great Dane then a normal GSD.  Unfortunately many people do not know how to measure their dogs properly, and therefore tend to misrepresent their actual size.  One easy method I like to share with people is to ask them their pant size.  Most folks know their jean inseam <length> number.  For example, if your jean size is a  30/32 then your waist is 30 inches around and your inseam is 32" up from the ground and IF your dog's back is even with, or higher then,  the top of your thigh ... you have a REAL Shiloh Wink

Just take a few minutes to surf our website and look at all of the pictures we have!!  Be sure to visit the yearly Homecoming pages, even though we often take lots of pictures of our pups, you will also see some full grown adults!!  Or even better, join our  Shiloh Community Forums: ShilohShepherdFriends  group and talk to hundreds of owners!

Of course the second most important distinction within this breed is the superior intelligence our dogs possess!!  If you take the time to talk to the owners of these amazing dogs, you will be convinced that they are almost human!!  The articles I have written about them are not "hype" .. actually, most of them don't even scratch the surface when it comes to explaining their unbelievable intuitiveness!!  A few years ago I did a quick web page answering some basic  FAQs: Temperament and Training that may help you get a general idea, but if you want to read more about them, please be sure to go to  What is a Shiloh Shepherd™ (1990)  and then take a few minutes to read about our  Shiloh Shepherd™ Heroes   or just go to  Megan's Story !!

As far as the hips are concerned, that has to be the #1 priority for this breed!  Despite the occasional pup whose hips do not pass, our record for sound hips is still far superior to many other breeds!!  The LMX program has certainly been very important in helping us maintain the stability that we value so highly!!!  Furthermore the ISSR will not allow ANY puppies to be registered if the parents have not passed their hip requirements!!  We continue to monitor hip data on all of our breeding stock in order to "weed out" even the dogs with good hips that may be producing an unacceptable percentage of  problem hips in their various progeny!  Complete charts are always updated on our web pages! 

Million Dollar Question: What is a Breed

 
Question 17. From the hip data you have on your web pages, it looks as if  the Shiloh Shepherd™ is losing ground, is it??


Answer:

To begin with, you may not be reading the charts correctly.  We have assigned various groups (A-D) based on age of dogs in each group.  The data collected is then cross referenced with the dogs born, per group, in order to ascertain the actual percentage being tested.  However, many of the dogs that have not been "upgraded" within the ISSR may have requested extensions, for various reasons .... or may have left the registry due to politics.

For example, Chart D consists of dogs that had *just* turned a year of age prior to Jan. 1 of 2003, yet our rules state that they have until 14 months of age (and actually 36 months of age, if they request extensions) to submit their hip results.  This too takes some time to process, so the fact that only 23% of all eligible dogs have been represented on that chart does not mean that those numbers will not change over the next 2 years!   Groups A and B are the only 2 groups that will probably not change significantly, and as you can see we had a wonderful 84% response in group A
Wink

Unfortunately the  breed didn't do so well during our Group B documentation, but much of that problem was caused due to the hysteria regarding the  History: The Back Issue  and then the Internet bashing   (Back Issue on the ShilohShepherds One List)   as well as  the political   HISTORY  surrounding the entire  History of the Club Split!!  With so much dissension going on, no wonder folks panicked and went into hiding, not even submitting their proper ISSR data so that their dogs could have their final papers!!

Nevertheless, dozens of  dedicated  ISSR breeders marched forth and continued to repair the breeches created by the small groups of renegades. Not only have we  regained most of the lost ground, we have become stronger then ever!!   Widely Used Shiloh Shepherd™ Studs: 1991-2010

Data from Group C dogs is still coming in, and we expect our D group to shine as brightly as our A group did just a decade ago!!  

Be sure to watch for our continuously updated charts and reports on our ISSR web pages.

Now let's take a look at our  methods of
Hip Certification. This chart may help you to better understand the other (final report) charts we have just examined.  Always keep in mind that this breed is based on the SV system established in Germany for the GSD, which is still the best system out there!!  Why do you think that folks keep importing GSD's from Germany?  because although we have the OFA, etc. here, it has NOT solved the hip problems that plague all of the breeds in this country, and Canada!  Take a few minutes and read  What Are We Breeding For !!  Then compare my article written over a decade ago to the latest  SV is fighting Hip Dysplasia with ZuchtWert-Schätzung  data from Germany!!

The Internet is full of articles regarding CHD.  If you want to investigate this subject, we have also linked some of the best ones on our web pages as well as posting them on our public community forum: Shiloh Shepherd™ Friends.

Some of the articles are very "heavy" and hard for the novice to understand .. like this one written by my brother - friend - and hip consultant for over 4 decades nowWink Breed Value und the GSD while others are much easier to digest, like  this  Hip article  or this one  Hip Dysplasia!!  The Internet is loaded with great information, if you take the time to search all the articles out, you will attain a much better understanding of the "big" picture!! 

 
Question 18. I heard that the ISSR has an "SP" rating that allows dysplastic dogs to enter the gene pool, can this be true?


Answer:

Yes, we do have a  SP rating, but before you jump to any conclusions I would appreciate it if you would take a good slow look at our chart comparing methods of  hip certification.

Hopefully this chart has shown you, clearly, that our "SP" ratings are no different then what Germany has been doing for decades .... as they continue to maintain the best GSD hips being bred!! The question should actually be more like .... How is that possible?

First of all, OFA ratings can often be deceiving because even the x-rays themselves can be faulty! For example, a bitch in heat can appear to be dysplastic due to subluxation! Even the OFA provides warnings on their web site! OFA: Hip Dysplasia Radiograph Procedures

"Radiography of pregnant or estrus females should be avoided due to possible increased joint laxity (subluxation) from hormonal variations. OFA recommends radiographs be taken one month after weaning pups and one month before or after a heat cycle. Physical inactivity because of illness, weather, or the owner's management practices may also result in some degree of joint laxity. The OFA recommends evaluation when the dog is in good physical condition."

Although they recommend that owners wait at least a month after "heat" cycles, it has been my experience that due to the large size of our dogs, Shiloh Shepherd™ owners should wait even longer!!

FURTHERMORE if the positioning on your dog is not good, the film too light or dark, or any other variable ... you could fail ..... even if your dog has good hips!!

Let me share an example of a true story!! Many years ago I CO-owned a very expensive bitch that was having an excellent show (not an easy thing to do in the GSD world!) career, both of us had poured a LOT of money into her, actually we paid $4,000 for her dam and were only allowed to keep *one* pup from the first litter! BTW, this all happened 20 years ago, so that was a huge investment! Anyway, when she reached 2 she was taken to the vet for x-rays. He thought they looked great and I was very pleased with the copy I received in the mail! Yet OFA rated her as dysplastic!!

This upset both of us and I sent the films to the most knowledgeable hip person I knew, he concurred that her hips were fine, but suggested that another x-ray be taken by a "professional" vet more experienced in positioning and with better equipment. So this was done a few months later, she was driven to a big city with a fancy vet that cost twice as much (not to mention the overnight accommodations, etc. involved in all of this) and he thought her hips looked fine too!! Then a few weeks later, we get another rejection from OFA Frown So what could we do?

Babe was shipped back to me, where she stayed in my kennel for nearly 2 years! Then one of my clients fell in love with her and wanted to take her home as a pet, I agreed and she left for Minnesota!! Talk about covering some mileage, this girl had started out in NY, lived in Kentucky, traveled to shows all over the East coast, and was now on her way to a new adventure!! Several months later Debbie called me to inform me that she went to watch a small AKC show and ran into a woman named (I won't go into this, but she was extremely well known in the GSD world, to say the least) that just loved Babe and wanted to talk to me, despite the fact that Debbie told her that she had failed her OFA ... I said fine.

That same day this breeder called me, informing me that she had called my expert friend (who I had previously sent the x-rays to) and felt that she could get an OFA number on this bitch, if I would allow her to do so, since she desperately wanted to breed her to a GV stud she owned! Knowing she was a Christian, I asked her how she could get a number without cheating? She replied that what we did WRONG was to check off the box that said YES to the "previously submitted" question!! WHAT?? In other words, once a dog failed .. even if it was due to poor picture quality, or positioning, the repeat submittal would also fail because the other vet would not want to challenge the first vet's opinion!! In essence, if a person is found guilty by a jury ..... the second jury (if that person insists on being retried) would probably agree with the first??

So in order to get an honest "fresh" opinion, you need to "lie" on the application and state that the dog has never been examined before!! HONESTLY!! So I told her to go for it! Guess what happened?? Different state, different "owner" listed <same dog info> and now she was 5 years old no less, and they rate her OFA **good**!! Go figure! Of course she was bred (unfortunately only that once) and had a great litter of pups (without my kennel name on them) that impressed the GSD show world Frown

Could this just be an unusual "exception"?? I think NOT!!

Everyone interested in learning more about hip dysplasia should certainly read Fred's newer articles!! Hip Registries Update

"Dogs that were considered "normal for age and breed" were given a certification number, and as time went on, people could fairly safely assume that a dog without this certification were dysplastic. The certificate thus became a valuable commodity. It marked dogs as more valuable than similar dogs without it. Unfortunately, the inertia that came with great numbers of dogs in the OFA registry may have contributed toward an unwillingness to consider technological improvements. After 30-some years of service to breeders, this stagnation and protection of the old method had left breeders on a plateau without offering any ladder to the next level of progress. It was time to examine new paradigms."

and by all means, please take the time to read this part!!

"The use of Breed Value (progeny and sibling results being made part of a dog’s likely genetic picture) has not been practiced much in this country. It is an old, established, and critical feature of dairy cattle breeding, but in the U.S., only two groups are known to utilize its very helpful advantages. One is the breeding program at The Seeing Eye, Inc.®, the famous school for guide dogs for the blind in Morristown NJ. The geneticist there, Dr. Eldin Leighton, has used PennHIP for diagnosis/prediction and BV data on relatives (mostly siblings, ancestors, and progeny) to make great strides in reducing HD incidence far below that possible in any other breeding program. The other is the community of fanciers devoted to the imported German Shepherd Dog. In Germany, the SV (parent breed club for all GSDs worldwide) has adopted a very similar data analysis system called Zuchtwert (breed worthiness). "

I fully agree that these programs are going to reduce CHD drastically .. something OFA was never able to do Frown  and if you dig deeper into the BV program, you will see many similarities to my LMX program, as well as being able to realize that the ISSR **has been** compiling all of this data for over a decade now ..... via our specially designed (by the TCCP) program, based on my old LMX system, only expanded! The only thing we need is cooperation from the owners, to submit their dog's hip records along with their request for final papers ..... it really IS that simple!!!

Littermate X-Ray and the Shiloh Shepherd - by Tina M. Barber

So could we reach 100% CHD free? NO, because there are so many variables involved with CHD .... even a small puppy injury could cause a dog to fail his/her x-rays ... but we can certainly shoot for the mark, to produce the best hips we possibly can .... and that IS the goal that ISSR breeders are striving towards!!

May I repeat myself one more time??? I believe that the German BV is a much better system then the one presently used by the OFA ... furthermore, it is well known that Germany HAS allowed dogs with hips that would not even get an SP rating via the ISSR to be used for breeding, (please see What You Still Don't Know about the "a" Stamp Can Hurt You)  and they STILL have less CHD in their dogs then we do in the "American" version of the GSD! WHY?

Take a look at this statement from the previous web page

"Fact #1. While it is true that moderately and severely dysplastic German dogs do not usually get "a" stamped and are not allowed to be bred, there is no denying that the SV evidence itself shows that dogs with identified various lesser degrees of dysplasia DO get "a" stamped and ARE bred!"

and compare the SV hip rating charts to ours.

Always keep in mind **knowledge is power** and in the case of CHD, the more you know, the better off you areWink

For example, take a look at the article "My Views on Developing a Wider View of Hip Dysplasia in the Border Collie" by C. Denise Wahl, PhD!! One of the things I was impressed with was the statement that said

"The problem with using a one factor, "one-size-fits-all" procedure with a disease caused by a combination of factors such as HD, is that all breeds do not have the same percentage contribution of these factors. All breeds of dogs are built somewhat differently, are of different sizes, activity levels, and selected using different standards as the primary criteria. Some of these standards involve performance criteria as a major selection criteria and some don't. In dogs bred to look a certain way, the selection against such factors as favorable pelvic muscle mass may change the percentage contribution of that particular HD factor in that breed. It's not surprising then, that adherence to a certain screening and selection technique would be more or less effective in decreasing the incidence of the disease in one breed versus another."

Another interesting source of CHD information is on the Anatolian site Hip Dysplasia

"Please Note: HD is a multi-allele gene and therefore can not be isolated.  With current evaluation methods we can not expect to "eradicate" HD in dogs of any breed."

If you have the time, you should read as much of the latest information as you can possibly find Wink

The Internet is full of articles on this subject, on a variety of breed sites, although I would focus more on the giant breeds for additional data, like this article on CANINE HIP DYSPLASIA: Surgical Management of Canine Hip Dysplasia Part II by Dr. Susan Thorpe-Vargas Ph.D. and John Cargill MA, MBA, MS.

"Canine hip dysplasia can be difficult to diagnose, as a number of other orthopedic neurological, autoimmune and metabolic problems may mimic it. Controversy surrounds the question of positioning for hip X-rays and what part joint laxity plays in hip dysplasia. Hip dysplasia may be more common in large and giant breeds and is one of the most over-diagnosed and misdiagnosed conditions."

So what is the solution to this problem, if we want to see Shilohs with better hips?? The answer is simple ..... LMX!! The LMX program is what gave us the strong foundation to begin with, and properly adhered to ... it will provide us with the best possible hips for all future generations!! Don't believe it? Well, then read what others are saying!!!

From the web article, Hip Testing by Don Abney

"What is required to eliminate the disease is genotype study.  A study of the genetic influence of all dogs in a line.  For all intents and purposes, it would take 12 to 15 years to study all of the dogs in one particular breeding line just to make a determination as to the [sic] whether or not there is a predisposition for the disease.  According to a study performed by the American Kennel Club, this would be about twice as long as most breeders remain in the business of breeding one particular breed of dog."

This is an excellent article, with a great chart and I would strongly urge you to read ALL of it!!

"A comparison study of tests was performed by me with the help of a few other breeders involved with testing, and the results were confusing, to say the least.  There were dogs that tested Excellent that were bred to dogs that tested Fair, and they produced an offspring with HD at the age of 7 months.  Then, there were dogs that tested Mild for the disease that were bred to dogs that tested Good, and they produced puppies with PennHIP readings of 3.1, with no HD."

Also of interest should be the following article by Rhonda Hovan which appears on the OFA website: Collecting and Utilizing Phenotypic Data to Minimize Disease: A Breeder's Practical Guide.

I have heard about many studies regarding CHD - nutrition - environment, etc. and thought I would do a search; after realizing that I would be forced to check out over 100 sites, I chose to drop this quest for the moment. If anyone here wants to dig deeper ... obviously there is a ton of information available, and the consensus that I have read seems to agree that there are many environmental as well as nutritional factors associated with the various degrees of CHD.

IMHO it just proves to me that a person can discover more about his dogs predisposition to CHD via the LMX program, then with any other system available on this continent!!

Back to the OFA data, I would strongly urge everyone that has a dog to visit this site The Art of Reading Hip C-Rays and maybe even print it for your vet, so that you can show him that you HAVE been investigating this issue, and you expect him to take a good x-ray of your dog in order to avoid failing OFA! It certainly doesn't do anyone any good to get a certificate stating their dog IS dysplastic (when he/she may not be) and then having a breeder replace such a dog, that could have actually made a tremendous contribution to the gene pool!!

For example, just this week [2003] our registry has been unmercifully attacked over the SP ratings we use, and the fact that we **did** allow an owner to breed **such** a dog within the ISSR. So I would like to make a few clarifications here .. just for the record.

1. He was bred to a bitch from a very strong LMX line, whose sire was both OFA and PennHip excellent! Actually, even her grandsire was OFA excellent Wink not to mention that her sire's littermate was excellent as well!!

2. The breeding was repeated, producing a combined total of 13 pups, many of which have already been x-rayed (some are still too young) and **all** but one have passed with good ratings ... the one that failed was only marked as "subluxation" and may actually pass the next time she goes in, now that her owner knows more about heats and positioning too!!

3. The stud owner has been diligently following up on all of the progeny in order to make sure that complete LMX data will be collected!

4. He was also bred to another female that has a strong LMX background, but unfortunately she perforated her intestine when the pups were only a few weeks old, thus causing her to go into septic shock. The pups were removed and hand raised, but only after they had already been nursing on bad milk. Of course all of these unfortunate environmental factors could lead to some skewed final results, but even though these puppies suffered from a suppressed immune system, if their hip x-rays pass it will only prove that solid genetics, via the use of the LMX system, does work!! Even if some of them did not pass, it still would not prove that it was due to their sires SP rating!! After all of the results are collected, I am confident that it will be proven that he did not produce any more effected progeny then any other average OFA certified dog would have been expected to produce! 

The Health Survey 2000 that was conducted for tabulation by Dr. George A. Padgett clearly showed that the hip status of the Shiloh Shepherd™ was much better than that of their former ancestors, the GSD.  Please take a few minutes to study his final report  that he prepared for our club (SSDCA) and our (ISSR) registry.

 
Question 19. What about other Health Issues?  What strides are being taken to reduce the frequency of other diseases?


Answer:

To begin with, our entire registry has been based on the same type of data collection system I used in my own kennel, also known as LMX.  Since I was only dealing with the dogs that I personally produced it was not difficult to collect data on the pups I kept or sold.  With the type of guarantees I provided, due to  the high prices I charged for pups, people would be inclined to contact me if they had a problem!  Nevertheless, I always tried to maintain a lot of contact with each of my clients.  First I started out with a yearly newsletter, that later turned into several,  fully loaded, yearly editions!!  In 1974 I also started a formal "Homecoming" event that would encourage folks to bring their pups home for a special "family" reunion!!   All of the data I collected on my dogs was later transferred into the TCCP data base for the ISSR.

The first few years after introducing my dogs to the "rare breed" world things started to get very complicated, even though I had set up the  International Shiloh Shepherd™ Registry with all kinds of precautions in mind, people started finding ways to abuse the system!  This in turn led to much political discord within the club, costing me untold thousands of dollars and hundreds of wasted hours, fighting these "political battles" instead of being able to put forth that time into focusing on proper data collection!!  Of course, many of the splits could not be avoided, and much of our data was lost due to these fiascos!  Full details have been placed on our websites for anyone that wants to read the horror story of  the entire SSDCA History: the early years all the way through SSDCA Highlights: 1997-2004.

Important LMX information was being lost, which could certainly affect some of the goals we have set for this breed. By the late '90's our club members rallied together and started planning for a mass mailing that would go out to every owner of a Shiloh Shepherd™,  starting with  The Importance of the Health Survey  and  followed by  A Word from the Breed Founder!

Over the next few months the Genetic Task Force (GTF)  continued to collect data and call Shiloh Shepherd™ owners across the country to encourage them to take part in the survey.  By early 2001 the  ISSR, Inc. Health Survey 2000 Update Parts I and II  were posted on the web, to be followed by updated reports as they became available!!  All of these reports are loaded with exact data, as received by the GTF, and computed by Dr. Padgett in his  seminar at our 27th Annual HomecomingThese were published in the ISSR HEALTH SURVEY UPDATE 2001  final results!! 

If you take another look at the chart that Dr. Padgett provided us with in the ISSR Health Survey 2000 Update Part II  and compare it with the one (compiled for us from all of the ISSR data collected during the Health Survey 2000 campaign) that he presented to the ISSR and all of those that attended his seminar at Homecoming, you can clearly see how much work has gone into our efforts to reduce/eliminate various genetic diseases!!

The honest ISSR breeders that are working hard to implement his ideals into their breeding program, searching out carriers and attempting NOT to breed such dogs together,  **are** making wonderful strides toward the improvement of genetic health in our entire breed!! SSDCA Shining Stars

If you take some time to study the advice of The Medical Mafia, they will clearly prove to you that **hysteria** never resolves anything! The pet owners need to work with their breeders to provide them with honest data that can help them to make better selections when evaluating future breeding pairs...it's THAT simple!! ISSR Licensed Breeder Matrix

When we are dealing with health issues we must be careful not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater"  created by rumor - gossip & innuendo. For example,   there seems to be much to do about SAS and heart testing, a good thing when done within the proper perspective .. but certainly not a "cure all" for this disease, as can be proven by some of the major research being done by various clubs! Just take a look at  SAS Research One Year Progress Report.  This report clearly states that

"At this time, evidence does not seem to implicate simple Medelian dominant or recessive patterns of inheritance. It also appears unlikely that SAS is an x-linked (sex-linked) trait. Currently, the theory most compatible with these pedigree studies is that SAS is inherited in Goldens as an autosomal dominant trait, modified by incomplete penetrance (which means that the gene can be present even in the absence of the disease)."

Of course ISSR breeders are very concerned about having all of their breeding stock certified clear of SAS, but they also realize the importance of LMX data that can be vital to their efforts of identifying carriers that should also be avoided!! 

In other words, it's not just the individual dogs, but the littermates that have to be considered as well!

Does that mean that if your dog is free of SAS he can still produce it if his littermates had it, and he was bred to a bitch who also had littermates with SAS??  You bet he can!!  So does that mean he can never be bred?  NO .. it means that he has to be bred to a bitch who didn't have any littermates with SAS!!!   The process is actually very easy, as long as you have the **full** LMX data availableWink

However, if you are only dealing with bits and pieces of information, you will never be able to map out a clear route that can help you to eliminate the carriers from your gene pool!!

Let's not repeat another  History: The Back Issue  hysteria like we all had to deal with not that long ago!!  It never benefited any person, but it certainly cost this breed the loss of some great dogs!!  WHY?? "politics"??  Was it worth it??  Please take a moment to read my web update;

"2002 UPDATE: No other Shilohs have experienced this problem since, but the uproar over it ripped apart the club in 1996-7.

Please note: Nearly 90% of the approximately 1200  pups born in the years 1997-2001   can easily trace their heritage back to one or more of the parents of that fatal litter! Even though accusations flew from coast to coast, it should be obvious to all that IF those pups did have a "inheritable lethal gene" then their offspring (Laz came from the first Captain/Lizzy litter) would pass it on somewhere down the line. Although many litters were actually inbred on the same lines (mostly for genetic data collection) not one pup was ever born with the symptoms (defects) found in the litter that managed to create such a brouhaha! Obviously there must have been an environmental cause, that we were unable to trace, due to the chaos that ensued.

Unfortunately due to the panic created by such a small group of hysterical people, much valuable "blood" was lost from the gene pool as people from coast to coast, due to blind panic, neutered and spayed some of the finest Shiloh representatives of their time."

So if you run into hysterical people screaming about health issues, investigate the facts, and take a closer look at the motivation behind those "horror stories" that they are spewing forth .... then visit our     International Shiloh Shepherd™ Registry  website for honest -- fully documented -- updatesWink

Please keep in mind that most of the "Shiloh puppy producers" that you will run into fall into three categories:

1.  Those that are working within the ISSR guidelines and focused on helping me to properly expand our gene pool while continuing to expand their education with these dogs.  ISSR Licensed Breeder Matrix

2. Those that joined the ISSR program and for whatever reasons (often it was just a personal perceived injustice that had nothing to do with the breed) chose to "jump ship" and "do their own thing"....

Even thought these people had no previous experience in genetics/breed development [letting two dogs have puppies does not constitute "experience" in breed development. It just proves that you don't know how to prevent "nature" from running amok!] or any other animal husbandry skills!

You can read some of their stories on Tina Speaks.  

3.  Those that saw money and chose to jump in to make some puppy money -- but then when they were faced with rules that others (the splinters) chose to ignore, they too succumbed to the promise of big bucks without rules, also known as No Rules--Just Right, and jumped ship as quickly as they could! In search of the fame and fortune they felt they couldn't reach within the ISSR unless they chose to live for the breed, instead of trying to profit from it! A more recent example can be seen in Shiloh Shepherd Breed Defectors: Where's The Truth

4. Last but not least, many of these people never even owned a Shiloh! They just spotted a legal "get rich quick" scam and jumped in with both feet!

Just recently I heard of several cases where pet quality GSD's from backyard puppy farms are being sold to "shiloh" as well as "King" breeders as "litter lots"  or in "quantities" from various "batches" of pups for an average of $100-$200! They are then resold (with false documentation) to the general public for 10 times that amount!

Don't be fooled by these scams! Visit your local shelter and adopt a GSD mix! Save a life and put these scumbags out of business!

Tina M. Barber, Shiloh Shepherd Breed Founder, candidly discusses the critical issues facing her breed in the new millennium.

 

2010 Update

Be sure to take some tome to read my newest article that CLEARLY  exposes "who's who" when it comes to producing GSD mixed puppies that "claim" to be Shilohs!!

 

Question 20.

On several websites I have noticed that Tina Barber is listed as being one of the founders of the Shiloh Shepherd™ breed. Who were the other people involved?


Answer:

That is a good question, and I would like to see their names myself <LOL> since  these "so called"  people have never existed!!  I think that some of the dissidents have made such statements in their foolish attempt to attain some kind of credibility for their side.  The truth of the matter is that at one point I had thanked some of my former GSD mentors for their assistance in helping me to better understand the principles necessary for creating my desired type.  At no time have these people actually been involved with my "breed" development, and once I left the "establishment" they continued with their GSD kennels!  Although some of them were supportive with occasional letters of continued encouragement, they have never bred, or even owned, a Shiloh Shepherd™! I honestly believe that some of these people would probably be offended if their names were listed as co-founders of the Shiloh Shepherds™! Not because they don't like the breed, people like Fred Lanting have continued to make himself available for X-ray consultations  and even structure seminars, etc., but he (and others like him) have earned their reputation via their own merits and are proud of it! They certainly would not want to be given credit for something they never did. That would be absurd! Can you imagine telling children that Abraham Lincoln was our first president and George Washington discovered electricity? If these people were still with us, I highly doubt if the parties involved would be very amused.

If you would like to read my history, please be sure to click on
Kennel of Origin--The Real History of the Shiloh Shepherds™  In the early 90's I wrote a small booklet about this breed that is now available on the Internet. Please be sure to print off the pages and read it in its entirety  The Origins of the Shiloh Shepherd™

Nothing has ever happened in the "Shiloh world" without it being fully documented on our websites, even all of the nasty "political" disputes have been covered in detail!  I believe that people have a right to know the truth, even if it isn't very "pretty" so we have documented the entire  
History of the Club Split
  with all of the additional information links provided at the bottom of this page.  These pages should easily answer any of the questions you may have regarding all of the "political disputes" that have lead to the formation of so many "renegade registries" Frown  For the latest updates, please visit Tina Speaks!

If you have any specific questions that you would still like to ask, or facts that you may not fully understand, we have a very nice forum with hundreds of ISSR Shiloh Shepherd™  owners and dozens of breeders that have been around for many years, all you have to do is join our  Shiloh Shepherds™ Forums
.

What Is A Shiloh Shepherd (1990 Article written by Tina M. Barber)

 
Question 21.

What does the "ideal" Shiloh look and act like, and is it even possible to locate one that totally fits the Breed Standard?


Answer:

To begin with, since these dogs are the result of my vision, I will take a moment to share what I have foreseen as the goal we should be striving toward.

a. Both coat varieties are extremely important because if you don't have enough smooth coats being utilized properly, it won't be long before the dominant plush factor will completely take over! So we must pick an ideal from both sides that will complement the other. If I had to choose only 2, I would have to select Luke to represent the smooth coat and Lazarus to represent the plush....but since it's my vision I would add two inches in height to both!

Are either of these dogs perfect representatives of the breed? Of course not, there is no such thing! All we can do is to strive toward the ideal standard that has been established for the particular breed that we are involved with, never expecting to reach total perfection because if that day ever came we would have to stop breeding! Once a masterpiece is finished, the artist has to stop painting!

b. Intelligence a/k/a "personality" a/k/a "temperament" that is truly what this breed is all about .. without these unique qualities, they wouldn't be true Shiloh Shepherds™!!  The Breed Standard calls for   << Courageous and self confident, this gentle giant possesses superior intelligence wrapped in a heart of gold, faithfully protecting his home and those he loves. >> Those are not just empty words ..  All true Shilohs have been bred toward maintaining those goals!!  The ideal Shiloh is an "easy going" loyal companion that loves children and other animals, yet has the desire to protect his owner even if it means giving up his own life to do so!  These dogs don't need specialized "training" because they already possess an extremely high degree of intelligence ... they need to be properly educated, just like a child, in order to reach their full potential.  What is Shiloh Shepherd™? Shiloh-STM Forum Any deviation from this ideal will result in producing just another "dog"  Frown

However, ISSR breeders are also aware of the fact that in order to prevent potential inbreeding depression, we must continue to blend in carefully selected NB dogs during this critical time of development .... so that there will always be **real** Shiloh Shepherds™ for many generations to come!!

c. Health issues must be carefully monitored on a continuous basis in order to prevent any particular disease from infiltrating our small gene pool or worst yet - from spreading out of control, thus potentially destroying the entire breed! As stated previously, the ISSR started the Health Survey 2000 nearly 4 years ago and has continued to collect data and update all information received via our ISSR and ShilohGTF websites.

Yet the most important issue we must all deal with is HONEST representation of data!!  The Internet is already full of false misconceptions and outright lies regarding these dogs, being spread by people that are NOT concerned about the future welfare of this breed!! Their motivation is based either on pure ignorance, or greed!  Anyone interested in owning a Shiloh Shepherd™ owes it to themselves to INVESTIGATE the truth!!  Before spending thousands of dollars, take some time to read all of my web articles, join Our Shiloh Shepherd™ Community forums  and ask questions!! 
INVESTIGATE-B-4-U-INVEST!

Let me share just ONE  example of FALSE information that is being spread via the "dark side" (non ISSR folks that claim to be breeding "Shiloh Shepherds™).

It was recently reported [2003] via private rumor that ISSR dogs have a high incidence of EPI, even though we have worked very hard to collect and compile our Health Survey data for Dr. George Padgett, in order to work on reducing, if not totally eradicating, as many of the diseases that have plagued the GSD as well as our own dogs, that we possibly can!  Even though this rumor was started by someone that was trying to sell her own non-ISSR dogs ... such things are certainly not beneficial to our entire breed's reputation!! 

That is why I feel that it is MY responsibility to state the TRUE FACTS!

1. Although we have had occasional reports of EPI in our dogs, the percentage of effected dogs is extremely small!  Considering the fact that we have already registered over 3,000 ISSR dogs, and that folks tend to panic when their special pet is diagnosed with something "awful" that needs to be treated for a lifetime ... if the dog can manage to live a normal life, it is highly unlikely that owners (that paid thousands of dollars for a pup) would refuse to report this problem!!  Nevertheless, we sent out a Health Survey to every person  in our database that was listed as owning a  Shiloh, even those that had left the registry to start their "own" little splinter groups!  Furthermore, we set up a website that encouraged folks to supply us with data on their dogs!  This has been a continued effort spearheaded by the ISSR Genetic Task Force since 2000!!  The results have always been published on our web site!! As of the last survey, we have had a total incidence of 6.1% per 100 Shilohs reporting EPI in this breed (that includes ALL dogs that were produced by ISSR parents) even if they are no longer ISSR registered!!  However, it does NOT include dogs that came from litters that were NOT properly registered at birth, because in many cases such breedings would never have been approved to begin with!

2. On the flip side, horrible reports of EPI started spreading within the "splinter" camps, and I chose to investigate these also (although they were not documented in our data) because I wanted to get a better handle on WHY they seemed to be having such an epidemic going on!!  Over the years I have learned to step back from the "hype" and just focus on the FACTS!  What I did find was disturbing ..... in nearly EVERY case that I researched, I found that the RC (Relation Coefficient) was extremely high, with most averaging over 30%!!  At that point I started to compare our reported EPI dogs with theirs, including degree of effect,  and have since come to some SERIOUS CONCLUSIONS!!  Therefore I would like to share just one example of these two related dogs.

1. Tristan’s sire's brother Merlin (although from former ISSR parents, he was never properly registered .. but his case is relevant because we have tons of medical documentation, including all of the various vet reports & treatments that were attempted that managed to prolong his life ... even if only for a very short time):  The 12 generation RC on this dog was 32.6%.

The new 60 generation RC we just ran with our updated data as of 11/06 comes out at 36.2%.  Therefore, we must assume that the true percentages that the other groups are not privy to are actually much higher than they are claiming!

That's probably why they are having so many horrible health issues within the various camps! They keep talking about "health testing" but they don't have the LMX/LMI data nor the complete RC data that they need in order to reduce some of those problems.

2. Mecki:  since his recent death has been publicized all over the Internet .. with fingers pointing at the ISSR, so I felt that everyone has a right to hear the TRUE story!! If you take a look at his RC, it comes out as 36.3%.

Every ISSR Licensed Breeder knows how risky such a high RC can be! Not just for EPI but for all kinds of other diseases! However, in this case, his breeder was madly in love with her Tristan, and desperately wanted to breed him.  As a result I  sent her a potentially compatible adult female as well as an  Orbit daughter that would have been her best chance to get his progeny with the lowest probability of health risks!!  However, while waiting for her to reach age, she had another bitch she wanted to breed to him!  I had advised her AGAINST this combination and we even discussed this issue via the OSS (Original Shiloh Shepherd™ Academy) in hopes of persuading her not to pursue this path!  Unfortunately most inexperienced breeders tend to get very passionate about certain issues, and it is hard to convince them that they are potentially making a  BIG mistake Frown

Of course you must keep in mind that even though all ISSR breeders may not be “perfect” and some will make an occasional mistake (after all, aren’t we all human), with us it’s the exception, not the rule!

Honest ISSR breeders try to learn from these mistakes and move on toward perfection; others choose to leave and start their own “registries”.

As a result of these issues, the slivers chose to drop their RC's by "outcrossing" --breeding to ANY GSD they could find, resulting in the big mess they have now!! Be sure to read

"Shiloh" Shepherd Fraud! Don't Let the Frauds fool you!

You can read about them on Tina Speaks!

For over 4 decades now I have watched these folks come and go ... Why? I believe it is due to immaturity, unless they have been around for over a decade ... they are still a lot like "teenagers" .... they seem to think they know it all and refuse to listen to sound reason!

In the case of the Tristan breeding, even though the litter had to have approval, everyone was aware of the fact that it was potentially dangerous, and I am sure that the breeder informed her puppy buyers of the risks involved ...... yet the "dark side" just loves to point fingers at us whenever they possibly can ... trying to convince folks that we are having as much of a problem as they are with EPI and many other diseases!

NOT TRUE .... if you take an honest look at the actual % numbers, we have a much lower incidence of EPI then the splinter groups do!!  We publish our data, they don't .. all they seem to do well is to spread rumors and false innuendoes!!

Instead of gossiping about health problems ... The ISSR has chosen to collect data, study it, and then do something about it!!  Despite the fact that most breedings have to be approved by the Breed Warden, the ISSR has gone even further to "tighten up" the IC and RC rulings. In an effort to reducing many of the health problems that we have seen in our dogs, as of 9/1/2001 we  revised our rules to read:

<<Effective 9/1/2001 any breeding that carries an IC higher than 19% is considered experimental. Any breeding of two dogs without health survey data validating carriers is a test breeding. Any such breedings without proper, prior written approval from the Breed Warden will result in non-registration of the litter.>>

Will the lowered IC completely eliminate any potential for a pup possibly developing EPI?  NO .... in this world, nothing is perfect ... but it will certainly reduce the probability and that is all ANY breeder can hope for!!  The facts speak for themselves!! 

 

Nevertheless, the ISSR has established a very active forum where all Shiloh owners can participate and share their burdens.  It was designed not only to provide new folks with more information about our dogs, but to offer a strong support system for all owners!! We try to offer support and a shoulder to lean on when needed AND education via experiences and suggestions Please join Our Shiloh Shepherds™ Community Forums.

 


As I have always said **THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING** don't be fooled into believing a bunch of hype and BS ... ask for the FACTS, and investigate what you are being presented with!!  We publish all of our facts, because we have nothing to hide!  We don't fill the Internet with a bunch of "half" truths about anything .... I believe in presenting the public with HONEST INFORMATION!

2006 Update: Please note, the tabulations listed below were calculated in 2003 using our (then) database of only 47,000 dogs. Since that time, the ISSR has continued to expand our system, and now we have accumulated data on over 717 million Shiloh ancestors! This new data often increases the old percentages significantly.

Listing of Litters with Reported EPI -- with a 12 Generation RC

Parents RC over 39%
Poca/Lobo 45.9%
Angel/Micia 40.3%
Bria/Jacob 39.8%
Mona/Shep 39.3%

 

Parents RC between 30 and 39%
Northstar/Rebel 37%
Bronwynne/Tristan 36.3%
Primo/Bear 33%
Gracie/Arthur 32.7%
Winnie/T-Sasq 32.3%
Phoebe/Rebel 31.2%
Tia/Pax 31.1%
Morgan/T-Sasq 30.7%
Belle/Fred 30.2%

 

Parents RC between 19 and 29%
Chelsea Rae/Rebel 26.8%
Winnie/Shane 26.8%
Nika/Kito 25.3%
Torah/Laz 24.7%
Tessie/Tonka 23.6%
Torah/Smokie 20.7%
Torah/Pax 20.3%
Jena/Storm 20.2%
Torrey/Lex 19.4%
Kayla/Killer Grizz 19.2%

 

Parents RC below 19%
Jessy/Zack 15.1%
Gwenna/Tristan 13.%
Storm/Orso 11.8%

Calculations provided through Breeder's Assistant for Dogs software, Professional Edition, licensed to International Shiloh Shepherd™ Registry, Inc.

Multiple affecteds produced in litters in Red.

Please note that NO EPI reports have been received for dogs with a RC below 9%, however, the GTF is dedicated to continue monitoring of data and periodic updates will always be available via our Shiloh Shepherd™ Learning Center

All ISSR Licensed Breeders have been working extremely hard to produce more NB (lowest RC) litters in order to reduce the potential of health issues within our breed. The pie charts listed below will clearly show you how our NB versus non NB rates have been changing since 1999.


Legend: NB puppies are in blue, Non-NB puppies are in purple.

Future charts will clearly show that most ISSR puppies born in 2003 and 2004 are either NB or out of the most coveted **Double NB** breedings that have been proven to produce the best possible conformation (SUPER SIZE) features as well as all of the other coveted Shiloh Shepherd™ qualities--without the high RC factor and potential health risks!

2006 Update

Yet we have continued to maintain the proper Kari|Ursa|Sabrina|Samson ratio.

Our data speaks for itself! If you want to see a complete picture regarding any health issues within the Shiloh Shepherd™ breed (as maintained under the direction of the ISSR) please visit our ISSR and GTF sites often!

There is more to a Shiloh Shepherd™ than just outstanding beauty. Your new Shiloh Shepherd™ should be an awesome dog, with a sound mind and body!

Owning a beautiful dog like Laz or Luke is an awesome experience...but...the pleasure and pride you enjoy can quickly be snuffed out if your best friend becomes potentially dangerous to your family and friends...or...in need of extremely expensive medication for life!

Don't put yourself in the position of having to choose between ending your dog's life or spending thousands of dollars in an effort to save him that may not even work. Investigate this breed and make sure that you are "stacking the deck" in your favor! Don't Fall 4 the Fraud!

 

In Conclusion

Due to the fact that the Internet is loaded with websites that claim to be selling / registering Shiloh Shepherds™,  in order to fool the unsuspecting consumer, they must attempt to provide the public with some fancy  smoke & mirror "explanations" regarding their heritage.  I have chosen to quote some of these twisted truths & outright lies from one of the more popular "so called" registries! 
I  have also chosen to reply to her allegations with  the TRUTH!!! So please take your time & investigate the links for even MORE proof about the TRUE history of these magnificent dogs.  Don't let these LIARS  fool you into believing their deceitful propaganda!!!  
They don't care about the future welfare of this breed ... they just want your money!!!!

Please note, I am quoting the fake sites statements in brown, and my replies in purple!!

<<The Shiloh Shepherd™ was started nearly thirty years ago through an intense breeding program.  Many of the top American Show Dogs, top Canadian Champions and some famous German imports from the 1960's, were used to establish the breed.>>

Please compare to What is a Shiloh Shepherd™

<<During these formative years, information was collected that could be used
 in improving the hips of these dogs. Dogs with strong recessive factors for bad
 hips (and other problems) were identified and eliminated from future breedings.>>


For the TRUE story, be sure to read the History of the  Littermate X-Ray Program.  

<<Although it took another two decades before this breed started to stabilize,
 much progress was being attained.  These dogs were consistently being referred
 to as the "Shilohs" or super-sized German Shepherds.>>


NOT EXACTLY .. these dogs were being called Shiloh Shepherds™ because they ALL
came from MY kennel!
Kennel of Origin: The Real History of the Shiloh Shepherd™.      

<<In 1990, the Federation of International Canines held a board meeting.  They chose
to register specific dogs that met the new breed standard as Shiloh Shepherds™.
Shortly thereafter, the American Rare Breed Association accepted them as a
 Rare Breed and the Shiloh Shepherd™ was born. >>


This is another excellent example of how the "dark side" a/k/a "charlatan splinters" have continued to "twist" the truth!!  The FIC was hired by me to issue registration papers for the dogs that qualified to be separated into their own "rare breed" category.

Shiloh or LHGSD

 Unfortunately they did not maintain the strict standards that I expected them to (BTW .. "them" consisted of Kathy and her husband, who later started his own "FAC" registry, and both are still issuing papers that most breed clubs do NOT recognize! However, they have **not** issued a paper for **any** Shiloh Shepherd™ since 1990!!)  ARBA did not even exist at that time, and when it did start it was only a show sponsoring organization!  They did not start a "registry" until the late 90's and  had agreed **not** to register  any Shiloh Shepherds™ until long after the club split chaos occurred.  At that point they assumed that they could cash in on the confusion & started to issue papers to **any** "Shiloh" that applied.  This resulted in the ISSR banning their shows, and we have continued to do so. Although they have not been actively "registering" any  "Shiloh's" for years now!  Please feel free to call the owners John and Robert Slack for full details ....... before you believe a lie!

The ISSR has been the **only** official registry for this breed, and is the **only** location where **all** of the data on **all** of the ancestors has been recorded!! 
For full details, please visit http://www.shilohshepherds.org/issrInc.htm

When reading about the other "registries" that supposedly provide "papers" for  the dogs they CLAIM  meet the requirements of MY dogs (a breed still under development, no  less) please ask them the following questions.

1. How long have they existed?

2. How many dogs have they registered? And do they mostly consist of littermates whelped via the owner of this registry, and possibly a few friends ... or are they representative of the entire breed??

3. Who does the actual paper processing?  Is it a legitimate professional independent  business, or are the papers issued via a home PC?

4. What state is their "registry" incorporated in, and how is it listed??

Please keep in mind that a person parking a car in his front yard with a "for sale" sign on it is NOT a car dealer, and these "institutions" are NOT "registries" .... if anything, they are nothing more then a "legal" scam creating much chaos for the entire breed!


For a complete picture of when these folks got involved (as well as how long they lasted)
please visit http://www.shilohshepherds.info/confusion.htm  and Shiloh Shepherd™ History: the First 45 Years.

Update October 2004
 

Out of pure desperation to attain some semblance of credibility, the oxymorons attempted to apply for UKC recognition!!
 
PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO READ OUR REPLY!! 
 
October 2006 Update
 

For more of Tina's replies to the splinter lies, please visit: Tina Speaks!

 
July 2010 update -- now you can "meet" the slivers!!
READ ALL ABOUT THEM IN TINA'S
 

 

 

For your convenience, all unusual words used in this Q & A are listed below and hyperlinked to  a detailed definition. Words that are linked to canine genetics are also linked to various websites with interesting articles that will help you better understand their meanings.

Glossary

Back Yard Breeder (BYB) Please reference: Puppy Breeders
Bogus Counterfeit or fake
Source: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition
Bottleneck  1. a. A narrow or obstructed section, as of a highway or a  pipeline.
    b.  A point or an area of traffic congestion.
2. A hindrance to progress or production.
Source: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition
Charlatan:

A person who makes elaborate, fraudulent, and often voluble claims to skill or knowledge; a quack or fraud.
Source: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition

Commercial Breeder Please reference: Puppy Breeders
Dissident characterized by departure from accepted beliefs or standards   
Source: Wordnet 1997, Princeton University
Fraud: A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain
Source: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition
Hobby Breeders Please reference: Puppy Breeders
Imitators:

To copy the actions, appearance, mannerisms, or speech of; mimic: amused friends by imitating the teachers.
To copy or use the style of: brushwork that imitates Rembrandt.
To copy exactly; reproduce.
To appear like; resemble.

Source: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition

Imposter:

One who engages in deception under an assumed name or identity.
Source: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition

Inbreeding Depression The exposure of the individuals in a population to the effects of deleterious recessive genes through matings between close relatives. 
Source: Inbreeding Depression and Outbreeding Depression by Michael Lynch
Mimic: To copy or imitate closely, especially in speech, expression, and gesture;
Source: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition
Muda Japanese word meaning any human activity which absorbs resources but creates no value.
Oxymoron Ox`y*mo"ron\, n. [NL., fr. Gr. ???, fr. ??? pointedly foolish; ??? sharp + ??? foolish.] (Rhet.) A figure in which an epithet of a contrary signification is added to a word; e. g., cruel kindness; laborious idleness.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
©1996, 1998 Micra, Inc.
Example: "
leaving the ISSR, yet swearing that you are still producing "Shiloh Shepherds™" via some "new" system"
Phenotype 1. a. The observable physical or biochemical characteristics of an organism, as determined by both genetic makeup and environmental influences.
  b. The expression of a specific trait, such as stature or blood   type, based on genetic and environmental influences.
2. An individual or group of organisms exhibiting a particular phenotype.
Source: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition
Plagiarize 1. To use and pass off (the ideas or writings of another) as one's own.
2. To appropriate for use as one's own passages or ideas from (another).

Source: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition
Puppy Mills Please reference Puppy Breeders
REB (Reputable Experienced Breeders) Please reference Puppy Breeders
Relationship Coefficient Probability that any two individuals share a given gene by virtue of being descended from a common ancestor. In sexual reproduction of diploid species, an individual shares half its genes with each parent, with its offspring, and (on average) with each sibling but only a quarter (on average) with its grandchildren or its siblings' offspring an eighth with its great-grandchildren, and so on.
Source: Hutchinson's Encyclopedia
Renegade 1. One who rejects a religion, cause, allegiance, or group for another; a deserter.
2.  An outlaw; a rebel.

Source: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition
Rogue: An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.
Source: American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition
Spurious 2 : outwardly similar or corresponding to something without having its genuine qualities : FALSE
3 a : of falsified or erroneously attributed origin
: FORGED b : of a deceitful nature or quality
Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary


Tina Barber is personally active answering numerous questions on only one public forum:
Shiloh Shepherd™ Friends.  Please feel free to join our group and ask your questions!

We also have hundreds of friendly people who will be happy to share their personal experience as owners of these magnificent dogs.

Most of our ISSR breeders and chapter leaders also visit this forum so that they can help you to locate an event or an upcoming meet and greet where you can meet and get to better know these dogs.

ISSR Licensed Breeder Matrix (tracks all of the good and bad guys with full details regarding their involvement within and outside of the ISSR)

Shiloh Shepherd History: the First 40 Years (provides a quick overview of this breed's history with some recent links

Publication History:
Written by Tina M. Barber Sept-Oct. 2003 for The Shiloh Shepherd Learning Center.
Updated by Tina Barber July-Oct. 2006 with links to new articles.
Updated by Tina Barber February-April 2, 2011.

 

 

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Last modified:  Saturday April 2, 2011 3:42 PM